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Thread: climate change times are a changin'

  1. #161
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    So who is credible then?
    Hons von Storch is a German climate scientist. He is a Professor at the Meteorological Institute of the University of Hamburg, and (since 2001) Director of the Institute for Coastal Research at the Helmholtz Research Centre.

    Did you read the whole Q&A?
    Yeah, except he's basing conclusions off of instincts--hard to take a person seriously when they do that. I read a good portion of it--not the entire thing.

  2. #162
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by GrinCDXX View Post
    Yeah, except he's basing conclusions off of instincts--hard to take a person seriously when they do that. I read a good portion of it--not the entire thing.
    So I've now shown you documents from 2 leaders or former leaders of the green movement and you've considered both of them to be not credible. How many more do I have to share with you before you accept the fact that not everything related to climate science is based on solid science and there are far more questions then answers when it comes to giving up fossil fuels, automobiles and changing our way of life due to beliefs in climate change?
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits...Posted by Yager on 12/18/09: Remember, remember, the 18th of October (2003).

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  3. #163
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits...Posted by Yager on 12/18/09: Remember, remember, the 18th of October (2003).

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  4. #164
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    So I've now shown you documents from 2 leaders or former leaders of the green movement and you've considered both of them to be not credible.
    Do you consider the first one to be credible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    How many more do I have to share with you before you accept the fact that not everything related to climate science is based on solid science and there are far more questions then answers when it comes to giving up fossil fuels, automobiles and changing our way of life due to beliefs in climate change?
    I didn't know that's what we were doing...the articles you were posting didn't seem to me to be in response to anything that I had actually said...
    Last edited by GrinCDXX; 05-21-2014 at 04:07 PM.

  5. #165
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by GrinCDXX View Post
    Do you consider the first one to be credible?
    I think he was a whack job, but I think Al Gore's sense of things is whacky too.

    James Lovelock:
    Lovelock was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society in 1974. He served as the president of the Marine Biological Association (MBA) from 1986 to 1990, and has been an Honorary Visiting Fellow of Green Templeton College, Oxford (formerly Green College, Oxford) since 1994. He has been awarded a number of prestigious prizes including the Tswett Medal (1975), an American Chemical Society chromatography award (1980), the World Meteorological Organization Norbert Gerbier Prize (1988), the Dr A.H. Heineken Prize for the Environment (1990) and the Royal Geographical Society Discovery Lifetime award (2001). In 2006 he received the Wollaston Medal, the Geological Society's highest Award, whose previous recipients include Charles Darwin [2]. He became a Commander of the British Empire CBE in 1990, and a member of the Companions of Honour in 2003. He is a patron of population concern charity Population Matters.

    Here is some of what he said in the article you stopped reading:
    In an April 2012 interview, aired on MSNBC, Lovelock stated that he had been "alarmist", using the words “All right, I made a mistake,” about the timing of climate change and noted the documentary An Inconvenient Truth and the book The Weather Makers as examples of the same kind of alarmism. Lovelock still believes the climate to be warming although the rate of change is not as he once thought, he admitted that he had been “extrapolating too far." He believes that climate change is still happening, but it will be felt farther in the future. Of the claims “the science is settled” on global warming he states:
    "One thing that being a scientist has taught me is that you can never be certain about anything. You never know the truth. You can only approach it and hope to get a bit nearer to it each time. You iterate towards the truth. You don’t know it."
    He criticizes environmentalists for treating global warming like a religion.
    “It just so happens that the green religion is now taking over from the Christian religion,” Lovelock observed
    “I don’t think people have noticed that, but it’s got all the sort of terms that religions use … The greens use guilt. That just shows how religious greens are. You can’t win people round by saying they are guilty for putting (carbon dioxide) in the air.”
    In the MSNBC article Lovelock is quoted as proclaiming:
    "The problem is we don't know what the climate is doing. We thought we knew 20 years ago. That led to some alarmist books – mine included – because it looked clear-cut, but it hasn’t happened;" he continues
    "The climate is doing its usual tricks. There’s nothing much really happening yet. We were supposed to be halfway toward a frying world now," he said
    The world has not warmed up very much since the millennium. Twelve years is a reasonable time ... it (the temperature) has stayed almost constant, whereas it should have been rising - carbon dioxide is rising, no question about that", he added.
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits...Posted by Yager on 12/18/09: Remember, remember, the 18th of October (2003).

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  6. #166
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by GrinCDXX View Post
    Do you consider the first one to be credible?



    I didn't know that's what we were doing...the articles you were posting didn't seem to me to be in response to anything that I had actually said...
    Isn't that exactly what you've been trying to rail on me for?

  7. #167
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by GrinCDXX View Post
    I didn't know that's what we were doing...the articles you were posting didn't seem to me to be in response to anything that I had actually said...
    How exactly is it that me posting articles with comments from climate scientists isn't related? I've just showed you that in your own words two of the leading voices in the green movement aren't credible. Now whether you'd heard of them before or not, doesn't change the fact that they have been given awards and recognized for being at the forefront of the movement. Now you're saying they're not credible...not me, you.
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits...Posted by Yager on 12/18/09: Remember, remember, the 18th of October (2003).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggsy View Post
    Isn't that exactly what you've been trying to rail on me for?
    Oh please do explain.

  9. #169
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by GrinCDXX View Post
    I didn't know that's what we were doing...the articles you were posting didn't seem to me to be in response to anything that I had actually said...
    If it wasn't obvious by his first graph, Shirtless is following the creationist credo of post as many psuedo scientific links or quotes he can possibly find because the effort to fully explain the issues and outright falsehoods takes far more effort than a simple copy/paste. He's not going to put forth the effort in reverse, just move onto the next thing because "yea but..."

    I'm sure we'll start seeing links to wattsupwiththat soon enough.

    Like this pause nonsense.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/op...ming.html?_r=0
    The current pause is consistent with numerous prior pauses. When walking up stairs in a tall building, it is a mistake to interpret a landing as the end of the climb. The slow rate of warming of the recent past is consistent with the kind of variability that some of us predicted nearly a decade ago.
    Oh and this from the same guy who was a skeptic of the so called hockey stick graph, set out to disprove it, and found that it was in fact accurate. Even helped to make it more accurate.

  10. #170
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    Isn't that half the problem? A lot of this is all opinions based on everyone's feelings? How many people have deeply researched the science of this?
    Only 2.

  11. #171
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    How exactly is it that me posting articles with comments from climate scientists isn't related? I've just showed you that in your own words two of the leading voices in the green movement aren't credible. Now whether you'd heard of them before or not, doesn't change the fact that they have been given awards and recognized for being at the forefront of the movement. Now you're saying they're not credible...not me, you.
    Ok, and all of this is refuting what point that I have made?

  12. #172
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxton View Post
    If it wasn't obvious by his first graph, Shirtless is following the creationist credo
    Ah yes, it all goes back to religion with you, of course. When at a loss for clever insults, just try to dismissively link your opponent to creationism. Really Foxy, we all know that you can be a much better troll than that.
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  13. #173
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Ah yes, it all goes back to religion with you, of course. When at a loss for clever insults, just try to dismissively link your opponent to creationism. Really Foxy, we all know that you can be a much better troll than that.
    I said he was using the same tactic, not that he was a creationist. Really sentencefragmentforaname, try not to get too confused.

  14. #174
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggsy View Post
    So find a solution that can stand on it's own without government intervention.
    It's a negative externality that is unlikely to be appropriately priced in. I'm pretty skeptical that it can be dealt with adequately without government intervention; that kind of thing is one of the things that government is really essential for.
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  15. #175
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    the hockey stick graph has been proven false. the books were cooked. see climategate part the one.

    "the science is settled" argument is BS.
    no real science is never settled. even Newton's
    gravity is being debated. look at the periodic table.
    that's been settled tens of times. Einstein's theory is being debated. the whole point of science is keeping an open mind.

  16. #176
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by huskyfan View Post
    the hockey stick graph has been proven false. the books were cooked. see climategate part the one.

    "the science is settled" argument is BS.
    no real science is never settled. even Newton's
    gravity is being debated. look at the periodic table.
    that's been settled tens of times. Einstein's theory is being debated. the whole point of science is keeping an open mind.
    Wrong and you have been corrected about this before.
    Climategate Scientists cleared of wrong doing AGAIN
    The fact that every scientific body examining Mann’s behavior has exonerated him deserves publicity and emphasis.
    "look at the periodic table. that's been settled tens of times."

    What?!

    Posts like this are why climate truthers are looked at like ignorant children.
    Last edited by Foxton; 05-22-2014 at 04:31 AM.

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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    The periodic table is revised every time we create a new element.

    Climate is dynamic not static. If I was looking at trends in Earth's climate would I look at 100 years of data or a 1,000 years? 10,000 years?

  18. #178
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Really Foxy, we all know that you can be a much better troll than that.
    I'm not convinced. I have yet to read a foxy post that would give me confidence that he/she has the mental ability to wax a car. So the ability to properly troll is probably way above her/him.
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig P. View Post
    It's a negative externality that is unlikely to be appropriately priced in. I'm pretty skeptical that it can be dealt with adequately without government intervention; that kind of thing is one of the things that government is really essential for.
    So it's government's job to push markets in a direction that they wouldn't normally go? I disagree. Government should stick to protection/defense and infrastructure. It has shown time and time again it cannot force markets or commerce without bad consequences. I'd throw out an example but other posters would accuse me of trying to change the argument or throwing straw men. Pushing the market when the reason to do so is still in question is not a good idea IMHO.


    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    The periodic table is revised every time we create a new element.

    Climate is dynamic not static. If I was looking at trends in Earth's climate would I look at 100 years of data or a 1,000 years? 10,000 years?
    Excellent question, but good luck getting a response that makes sense from this group to that one.

  20. #180
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    Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxton View Post

    Posts like this are why climate truthers are looked at like ignorant children.
    As opposed to your tactic of name calling someone who disagrees with you and pouting? Yeah, that's not childish at all.

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