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  • Re: climate change times are a changin'

    Lawrence Tribe, constitutional law professor at Harvard and a strong supporter of environmental rights, joins in a suit against the EPA.

    As a law professor, I taught the nation’s first environmental law class 45 years ago. As a lawyer, I have supported countless environmental causes. And as a father and grandfather, I want to leave the Earth in better shape than when I arrived.

    Nonetheless, I recently filed comments with the Environmental Protection Agency urging the agency to withdraw its Clean Power Plan, a regulatory proposal to reduce carbon emissions from the nation’s electric power plants. In my view, coping with climate change is a vital end, but it does not justify using unconstitutional means.

    Although my comments opposing the EPA’s proposal were joined by a major coal producer, they reflect my professional conclusions as an independent legal scholar. I say only what I believe, whether I do so pro bono, or in this case having been retained by others. After studying the only legal basis offered for the EPA’s proposed rule, I concluded that the agency is asserting executive power far beyond its lawful authority.

    The Clean Power Plan would set a carbon dioxide emission target for every state, and the EPA would command each state, within roughly a year, to come up with a package of laws to meet that target. If the agency approves the package, the state would then have to impose those laws on electric utilities and the public.

    The agency would effectively dictate the energy mix used in each state and leave the state with essentially no choice in implementing its plan. But Supreme Court precedent settled over two decades ago in New York v. United States (1992) and reaffirmed by a 7-2 vote as recently as 2012 in NFIB v. Sebelius, the ObamaCare decision, holds that such federal commandeering of state governments defeats political accountability and violates principles of federalism that are basic to our constitutional order.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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    • Re: climate change times are a changin'

      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
      Lawrence Tribe, constitutional law professor at Harvard and a strong supporter of environmental rights, joins in a suit against the EPA.
      I assume you also endorse Tribe's view that the "strict constructionists" on SCOTUS are in reality bomb-throwing activists who are even more disruptive of judicial tradition than their liberal counterparts?
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      • Re: climate change times are a changin'

        I'm wondering if this really is meaningful: What Apple Just Did in Solar Is a Really Big Deal
        I like the fact that the shareholders of all involved are supporting it. If lots of money acts in concert with a conscience, perhaps things will get done more rapidly in an agreeable free-market way with increasing production continuing to drive the price down on solar at the same time it puts downward pressure on oil (win-win). Or is this Apple thing just a symbol for the consumers to lap up?
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        • Re: climate change times are a changin'

          Trofim Lysenko. That is all.

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          • Re: climate change times are a changin'

            Originally posted by geezer View Post
            I'm wondering if this really is meaningful: What Apple Just Did in Solar Is a Really Big Deal
            I like the fact that the shareholders of all involved are supporting it. If lots of money acts in concert with a conscience, perhaps things will get done more rapidly in an agreeable free-market way with increasing production continuing to drive the price down on solar at the same time it puts downward pressure on oil (win-win). Or is this Apple thing just a symbol for the consumers to lap up?
            \\I just got a price to put 9.6kW on the roof of my shop, $28,000 or so, with the 30% fed tax credit that puts it at $20,500. 12 years to pay back, 8% ROI. Need a safe place to put some money and I'm really close to pulling the trigger. Have a few issues to work out first put I expect to see it by early next fall
            I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

            Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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            • Re: climate change times are a changin'

              Originally posted by walrus View Post
              \\I just got a price to put 9.6kW on the roof of my shop, $28,000 or so, with the 30% fed tax credit that puts it at $20,500. 12 years to pay back, 8% ROI. Need a safe place to put some money and I'm really close to pulling the trigger. Have a few issues to work out first put I expect to see it by early next fall
              I assume 9.6kW is max capacity? What actual electricity production rate do you need to average to hit that 8% ROI over 12 years? Do the calculations assume any maintenance at all, or does the first repair bill push it out another 5 years?
              If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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              • Re: climate change times are a changin'

                Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                Lawrence Tribe, constitutional law professor at Harvard and a strong supporter of environmental rights, joins in a suit against the EPA.
                Tribe certainly has cred when it comes to con law.

                Comment


                • Re: climate change times are a changin'

                  Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                  I assume 9.6kW is max capacity? What actual electricity production rate do you need to average to hit that 8% ROI over 12 years? Do the calculations assume any maintenance at all, or does the first repair bill push it out another 5 years?
                  10 year warranty, so no repairs until then. I'm a licensed Electrician, so not worried about repairs. Good question on the production rate to hit that ROI.I'll ask that. The company I'm talking to uses 70%(rule of thumb for this area) and then deducts for losses from that point. 5% for inverter as an example, they deduct for snow cover, wiring losses. I oriented the building this is going on purposely for this project. I'm already using a built in collector on south wall to heat the building,radiant floor. I thought about doing install myself but I doubt I can buy the equipment anywhere close to what they buy and sell for and I'm too old to crawl around on roof
                  Last edited by walrus; 02-11-2015, 05:48 PM.
                  I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

                  Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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                  • Re: climate change times are a changin'

                    Serious questions (this time, anyway...). Genuine curiosity.

                    If the accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere as a result of human activity is such a problem, what difference does it make whether we limit CO2 or increase the rate at which we remove CO2 from the atmosphere to compensate for what is being emitted?

                    Isn't the net result exactly the same in either case?



                    Doesn't it make sense, if you truly are trying to persuade people to actually do something effective, to advocate for a strategy that most people will easily understand and accept? Insisting that the only way to address the situation must be to limit emissions alienates quite a few people who otherwise might be quite receptive, no?
                    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                    Comment


                    • Re: climate change times are a changin'

                      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                      Serious questions (this time, anyway...). Genuine curiosity.

                      If the accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere as a result of human activity is such a problem, what difference does it make whether we limit CO2 or increase the rate at which we remove CO2 from the atmosphere to compensate for what is being emitted?

                      Isn't the net result exactly the same in either case?



                      Doesn't it make sense, if you truly are trying to persuade people to actually do something effective, to advocate for a strategy that most people will easily understand and accept? Insisting that the only way to address the situation must be to limit emissions alienates quite a few people who otherwise might be quite receptive, no?
                      Serious answer (this time anyway...)
                      Of course. But I feel this whole post misses the mark significantly (as far as what the scientific community says). I have not heard of a scientist that promotes just reducing emissions. Or of one who says removing CO2 from the atmosphere would not help the situation. I think the premise of your question relies on a strawman.

                      I think it is not talked about as much because, from what I can tell, reducing emissions is the low hanging fruit of the equation.

                      It is hard to advocate any strategy to do something about it when a large portion of the population refuse to acknowledge its existence.
                      In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gopher'.

                      Originally posted by burd
                      I look at some people and I just know they do it doggy style. No way they're getting close to my kids.

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                      • Re: climate change times are a changin'

                        Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                        Serious questions (this time, anyway...). Genuine curiosity.
                        So you're implicitly admitting that most of your lines of questioning are for the purpose of partisan trolling. Got it.
                        Last edited by GrinCDXX; 02-26-2015, 02:41 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by GrinCDXX View Post
                          So you're implicitly admitting that most of your lines of questioning are for the purpose of partisan trolling. Got it.
                          So you're saying his posts are no different than the majority on this site?

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                          • Re: climate change times are a changin'

                            This thread the the biblical thread have a lot in common.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                            • Re: climate change times are a changin'

                              Originally posted by goldy_331 View Post
                              So you're saying his posts are no different than the majority on this site?
                              Fishy plays the game at a much higher level than nearly anyone else here.

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                              • Re: climate change times are a changin'

                                Originally posted by GrinCDXX View Post
                                Fishy plays the game at a much higher level than nearly anyone else here.
                                Troll Level:

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