climate change times are a changin'

[GrinCDXX]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Well now I'm curious. What point are you trying to make here? That you're not a lefty? Obviously on this issue that simply isn't true. Of course I don't know you and you don't know me but if you're hardcore liberal on an issue like this, it is usually a safe assumption. If on other issues you have more moderate or conservative tendencies, congratulations and I'm proud of you for that. But that has zero to do with issue being discussed in this thread.

Please enlighten me. What have I posted here that is "lefty"?

[Rover]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Interesting, I had not heard that...would like to see the link if you find it.

This is not exactly what I was looking for as it only goes out to 2050, but it does state that China reaches peak population in 2030 and then starts going down, while India overtakes it. Also the graph shows US continuing to grow although again I think the 500M # was an end of century and not mid-century estimate.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...daily-chart-10

[Tiggsy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Please enlighten me. What have I posted here that is "lefty"?

You cannot be serious.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

You cannot be serious.

Should be easy to answer then...

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

This question/answer doesn't sound like climate scientists honestly know with any certainty more than the rest of us do, what is going to happen. Instincts and subjective assumptions don't give me a great deal of faith.

SPIEGEL: Despite all these problem areas, do you still believe global warming will continue?

Storch: Yes, we are certainly going to see an increase of 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) or more -- and by the end of this century, mind you. That's what my instinct tells me, since I don't know exactly how emission levels will develop. Other climate researchers might have a different instinct. Our models certainly include a great number of highly subjective assumptions. Natural science is also a social process, and one far more influenced by the spirit of the times than non-scientists can imagine. You can expect many more surprises.

[Bob Gray]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Agreed. Amazing how a "scientist" can in one breath say something is certainly going to happen and in the next breath say he's going by instinct. This stuff makes swiss cheese look like granite.

Bottom line is no meaningful deal will happen because of competing economic interests around the world. Places like China and India may give a little lip service, but they won't let climate change efforts meaningfully impact their economic development.

[Tiggsy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

This question/answer doesn't sound like climate scientists honestly know with any certainty more than the rest of us do, what is going to happen. Instincts and subjective assumptions don't give me a great deal of faith.

So this is science now? Sad.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

This question/answer doesn't sound like climate scientists honestly know with any certainty more than the rest of us do, what is going to happen. Instincts and subjective assumptions don't give me a great deal of faith.

I agree, that guy doesn't come across as very credible.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

I agree, that guy doesn't come across as very credible.

So who is credible then?
Hons von Storch is a German climate scientist. He is a Professor at the Meteorological Institute of the University of Hamburg, and (since 2001) Director of the Institute for Coastal Research at the Helmholtz Research Centre.

Did you read the whole Q&A?

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

I agree, that guy doesn't come across as very credible.

To me, Von Storch comes across as one of the few people trying to be totally honest with us about climate research.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

So who is credible then?
Hons von Storch is a German climate scientist. He is a Professor at the Meteorological Institute of the University of Hamburg, and (since 2001) Director of the Institute for Coastal Research at the Helmholtz Research Centre.

Did you read the whole Q&A?

Yeah, except he's basing conclusions off of instincts--hard to take a person seriously when they do that. I read a good portion of it--not the entire thing.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Yeah, except he's basing conclusions off of instincts--hard to take a person seriously when they do that. I read a good portion of it--not the entire thing.

So I've now shown you documents from 2 leaders or former leaders of the green movement and you've considered both of them to be not credible. How many more do I have to share with you before you accept the fact that not everything related to climate science is based on solid science and there are far more questions then answers when it comes to giving up fossil fuels, automobiles and changing our way of life due to beliefs in climate change?

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

How about this from Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestay...lobal-warming/

[GrinCDXX]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

So I've now shown you documents from 2 leaders or former leaders of the green movement and you've considered both of them to be not credible.

Do you consider the first one to be credible?

How many more do I have to share with you before you accept the fact that not everything related to climate science is based on solid science and there are far more questions then answers when it comes to giving up fossil fuels, automobiles and changing our way of life due to beliefs in climate change?

I didn't know that's what we were doing...the articles you were posting didn't seem to me to be in response to anything that I had actually said...

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Do you consider the first one to be credible?

I think he was a whack job, but I think Al Gore's sense of things is whacky too.

James Lovelock:
Lovelock was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society in 1974. He served as the president of the Marine Biological Association (MBA) from 1986 to 1990, and has been an Honorary Visiting Fellow of Green Templeton College, Oxford (formerly Green College, Oxford) since 1994. He has been awarded a number of prestigious prizes including the Tswett Medal (1975), an American Chemical Society chromatography award (1980), the World Meteorological Organization Norbert Gerbier Prize (1988), the Dr A.H. Heineken Prize for the Environment (1990) and the Royal Geographical Society Discovery Lifetime award (2001). In 2006 he received the Wollaston Medal, the Geological Society's highest Award, whose previous recipients include Charles Darwin [2]. He became a Commander of the British Empire CBE in 1990, and a member of the Companions of Honour in 2003. He is a patron of population concern charity Population Matters.

Here is some of what he said in the article you stopped reading:
In an April 2012 interview, aired on MSNBC, Lovelock stated that he had been "alarmist", using the words “All right, I made a mistake,” about the timing of climate change and noted the documentary An Inconvenient Truth and the book The Weather Makers as examples of the same kind of alarmism. Lovelock still believes the climate to be warming although the rate of change is not as he once thought, he admitted that he had been “extrapolating too far." He believes that climate change is still happening, but it will be felt farther in the future. Of the claims “the science is settled” on global warming he states:
"One thing that being a scientist has taught me is that you can never be certain about anything. You never know the truth. You can only approach it and hope to get a bit nearer to it each time. You iterate towards the truth. You don’t know it."
He criticizes environmentalists for treating global warming like a religion.
“It just so happens that the green religion is now taking over from the Christian religion,” Lovelock observed
“I don’t think people have noticed that, but it’s got all the sort of terms that religions use … The greens use guilt. That just shows how religious greens are. You can’t win people round by saying they are guilty for putting (carbon dioxide) in the air.”
In the MSNBC article Lovelock is quoted as proclaiming:
"The problem is we don't know what the climate is doing. We thought we knew 20 years ago. That led to some alarmist books – mine included – because it looked clear-cut, but it hasn’t happened;" he continues
"The climate is doing its usual tricks. There’s nothing much really happening yet. We were supposed to be halfway toward a frying world now," he said
The world has not warmed up very much since the millennium. Twelve years is a reasonable time ... it (the temperature) has stayed almost constant, whereas it should have been rising - carbon dioxide is rising, no question about that", he added.