climate change times are a changin'

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

[dxmnkd316]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

In Mass, NIMBY's tried to appeal to the Audobon society to come out against windmills in Nantucket Sound. Society took a look and came up in support, saying that while there may be some bird deaths, it paled in comparison to the environmental benefits. I'll take them at their word on this.

Kindly post the environmental studies showing natural gas emits as much carbon as coal plants. I'm extremely curious who's saying that....

Special mice need to move to where solar panels aren't. While I'm exaggerating about paneling the entire state, those two things (solar, mice) can easily co-exist.

Hydro proposal is built on existing facilities (Hoover Dam, TVA, Niagara Falls, etc) not building new ones, so no new impact from my proposal.

Anything else?

You know, if a bird is too stupid to figure out that running into a windmill is a bad idea, it's probably best left out of the gene pool.

[Jimjamesak]

Fish people, planting tomatoes, Florida sinking is a good thing... I'm glad people are taking this issue seriously. I'd hate to see what this thread would be like if people didn't have questions about the debate. The only thing missing is ponies...

Take care folks!

Ugh, I guess... This is how you guys look in here:

[dxmnkd316]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

"Across the country, nearly 5 million people live in 2.6 million homes at less than 4 feet above high tide"

Where do you think we're going to move? Hey, I know. We'll all relocate to Edina, MN. Howdy neighbor!

I was going to make a similar post:

You know the main reason I think all midwesterners should be deathly afraid of global warming? Because can you imagine all the west coast d-bags and east coast yuppies moving here? F* *k that.

[Tiggsy]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

I was going to make a similar post:

You know the main reason I think all midwesterners should be deathly afraid of global warming? Because can you imagine all the west coast d-bags and east coast yuppies moving here? F* *k that.

Let's start building our fence now.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

I was going to make a similar post:

You know the main reason I think all midwesterners should be deathly afraid of global warming? Because can you imagine all the west coast d-bags and east coast yuppies moving here? F* *k that.

Don't worry....there are mountains in the way from both directions. They'll stop there. We're good.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

842'

My house is at an even 1,000. Hell, driving from my house to work I go from a high of about 1,100ish down to around 700-750 (can't remember the exact number here). Most of it occurring in a small stretch of road. Not a whole lot, obviously, but I thought it was interesting.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Don't worry....there are mountains in the way from both directions. They'll stop there. We're good.

The midwest is also armed to the teeth compared to those coastal pinkos.

[St. Clown]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

I was going to make a similar post:

You know the main reason I think all midwesterners should be deathly afraid of global warming? Because can you imagine all the west coast d-bags and east coast yuppies moving here? F* *k that.

"Hey, [easterners], go home! The [state]'s full!"
"Sorry, folks, you heard the lady.

[Slap Shot]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

I think it absolutely does.

Why?

How do you explain the Earth going in and out of an ice age with no humans around to impact the climate?

I don't need to. The fact that the Earth's climate can fluctuate without man's influence doesn't prove it can't be accelerated independently of natural fluctuations.

[huskyfan]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Global warming describes the system wide, long term, net effect of increased greenhouse gases. Climate change merely emphasizes what should be readily apparent to more people, that in a complex, dynamic system, this effect will not be uniform over time and space. Climate change is used more now because global warming has been seized upon by the disingenuous to rile up the ignorant.

thank you.

and yes, Rover, I was wrong about Romney. as were Romney's internals and most of the other pollsters.

I hoped this would not turn in a flame throw. and yes, I'm being lazy not looking things up for myself. overwhelming amount on the net about this and I can't find anything unbiased. for the record, I was a hippie environmentalist long before most of you were born, spending Saturdays smashing glass bottles in to pieces to be shipped to the recycler. I was a founding member of my high schools environmental group. I still consider myself an environmentist. we heat with wood, use our own well for water, use the screwy lightbulbs, use greeny bags, recycle, keep the tires inflated, love our National Parks, belong to several trails and wildlife associations. yes, we drive internal combustion cars. guilty as charged. I love nature and all things wild and natural. I spend most of my days in the woods while in the Keweenaw.
we own land and work with Michigan Tech forestry to manage the timber responsively. and I've seen all the fads come and go, return of the ice age, nuclear winter, acid rain, overpopulation, depletion of our forests, poisoned apples, etc etc. when global warming was first brought up, late 80's?, I bought into it hook line and sinker.
Al Gore was the worst possible spokesman for the cause and he caused me to question the whole thing. for now I sit on the fence.

funny thing - oil, coal, natural gas - they are as organic as anything the earth herself produces.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

*sigh* Okay, here was my point. If this whole climate change thing is so real and so predictable this theory would lead directly to a law. Maybe something on the lines of XX lbs. of CO2 in the air = (degrees C of climate change) but because the system is so dynamic and cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, it will never happen. So they are in fact stages along the same path.

I should probably stay out of this but I would say that Foxton had a fairly accurate description on the whole hypothesis, fact, theory, law thing. Like most arguments, it breaks down to semantics at some point. Unfortunately, the hypothesis--theory--law progression we were all taught in school is not representative of how things work in the scientific community.

Every "fact" we have is a working hypothesis, to some degree. We will call it a fact when it is beyond reasonable doubt; when the hypothesis has been rigorously tested, but it is really a semantic game. Like you said, every fact is open to revision or rebuttal but it is usually so well supported that in order to progress knowledge, we take it as a given. A theory will encompass hundreds, thousands or more hypotheses and facts, each with their own set of assumptions and levels of evidence. All open to revision. Altering one hypothesis contained in a theory does not make the theory weaker, but instead stronger because it better fits the data. It becomes more explanatory. A strong theory is one that best adapts to new evidence.

A theory will not become a law. The theory of evolution will never become a "law." It is too broad. (Most) Laws tend to be quantitative/mathematical based for the reason stated, they work best in a closed system. I say most because I am trying to think of a counter example (which I am sure is out there) but one does not come to mind. I work mainly in the biological sciences so that is where my biases rest, I am sure other fields have something to say.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

and yes, Rover, I was wrong about Romney. as were Romney's internals and most of the other pollsters.

Even though you were indeed wrong, why bother apologizing to Rover? It'll just make his Boston ego burst.

[huskyfan]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

she said sitting at 11,000 feet. /end rant

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: climate change times are a changin'

Al Gore was the worst possible spokesman for the cause and he caused me to question the whole thing. for now I sit on the fence.

Agreed. He really really sucks. Here is a "good" video on him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2B34sO7HPM

I would suggest the whole potholer54 climate series for anyone interested. It is the most "objective" and comprehensive source I have found on climate change. Some will disagree...and that's good. Just give the series a shot.