Headline News Thread

[Kepler]

Re: Headline News Thread

I wouldn't say, as this person did, that marijuana is worse than hard drugs as a general proposition, but again, the main point was marijuana's negative effect on students, not a debate of which is worse. If this person exaggerated a little in saying hard drugs aren't as bad, that's a minor foible in making the overall point they make.

I understand what you're saying. I don't agree, though. I think he's mis-ascribing to marijuana what other ages have mis-ascribed to rock music or hot rods or girl/boy craziness... the vast majority of high schoolers weren't designed to be in high school, they were designed to be getting on with life on the farms and in the factories. 90% of high school students have no interest in learning other than picking up a necessary credential, so their high school days pass with all the excitement and alacrity of a wait at the DMV. We ought to have recognized this long ago and adopted a more European system with well-financed and attractive vocational school and internships. There is absolutely no point in teaching high school students who don't care calculus or chemistry -- they will never need nor understand it.

The big difference with European models should be that every kid who wants to go to high school (or college, or graduate school) should be able to go regardless of money. As long as they have the interest, the drive, and enough on the ball to make the grades, they should be able to pursue higher education. But I digress from the main point.

Pot doesn't sidetrack kids who wouldn't have been sidetracked by something else. Pretty much every kid in America smokes pot at some point between 14 and 18 -- those who become tied in with the culture as an obsession are filling up a missing space that with other kids would be filled by family, friends, learning, the arts, sports, etc. Ban pot and those kids will just cut class to talk about whatever the next escape is, because the escape is a rational response to an institution that offers them nothing.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Headline News Thread

Just rehashing the joke of when people have issues with a PC, it's the inevitable response. I thought it would be funny here as he's running an Android phone and a Mac is certainly not a phone.



I'm thinking Germany might step in through back channels to make a plea with the EPA to not be too hard on VW. The company is huge in Germany, like 1960s GM big for the US equivalent. It could seriously damage an already shaky European economy.

**** that noise. Those *******s have had a hard-on for fining US companies for a decade. But frankly, country of origin is fairly low on the list of issues. It shouldn't matter where they are from.

Flagrant violations of the law like this should be subject to massive fines and criminal charges. That company should get a kick right in the pants to let them and every other company out there that they shouldn't even ****ing think about this for a second.

I mean, what would they have to offer us in return for back channel negotiations? This is a really big deal. It should cause some damage because of just how ballsy and flagrant this was.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Headline News Thread

I agree with that interpretation, though I think he's wrong. My Mom (wow, twice in one day) was an RN who worked with alcoholics and hard drug users, and she used to say that alcohol was actually far more destructive because (1) it was always there as a legal temptation even when the patient was released back into society, and (2) because alcoholics were erroneously considered "in recovery," whereas addicts were always (correctly) considered "in remission."

That is true to an extent. You don't see billboard advertisements for Pete's Wicked Smack, and there is a liquor store within a 5-15 min commute of most people. However hard drug users, due to the illicit nature of their substance of choice, are very often part of a close group of fellow addicts, and thus are within a few phone calls of someone who knows where to score. It's why keeping away from old haunts and old "friends" is always one of the most important, and most difficult, parts after acute withdrawal is complete.

And Kepler is correct about sidetracking, with reservations. I wouldn't encourage a 16 year-old to go smoke a joint in lieu of learning guitar, or working on his car. But odds are, at some point, he's probably going to inhale, and it's not necessarily something that should go on his criminal record, unless of course, he commits an actual crime while stoned.

[St. Clown]

Re: Headline News Thread

**** that noise. Those *******s have had a hard-on for fining US companies for a decade. But frankly, country of origin is fairly low on the list of issues. It shouldn't matter where they are from.

Flagrant violations of the law like this should be subject to massive fines and criminal charges. That company should get a kick right in the pants to let them and every other company out there that they shouldn't even ****ing think about this for a second.

I mean, what would they have to offer us in return for back channel negotiations? This is a really big deal. It should cause some damage because of just how ballsy and flagrant this was.

Normally, I'd agree with you if only the overall situation was better for the world.

I can't say exactly what would or could be offered. I was merely thinking along the lines of Europe being on the brink, Germany being its largest economy, and risking tossing the entire continent into a deeper recession than it's already facing. The US doesn't want that. The US can't afford that. Driving the dollar any higher, considering China's issues, will create havoc for our exporters, in turn creating more challenges for economy that's currently "strong" at about 2% growth.

Add to that, VW will be facing many of these same sanctions with other national powers and the EU.

[The Rube]

Re: Headline News Thread

The drug thing:

I've personally seen people taking/on:

cocaine, LSD, X (slightly different, IMO), marijuana, crank, and mushrooms.

The sticky icky is easily the least harmful. It's not even close.

And yes, alcohol is much more destructive.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Headline News Thread

Thanks. It was bb_dl, I was already trolling enough.

I honestly don't even know what it meant. It went over my head.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Headline News Thread

**** that noise. Those *******s have had a hard-on for fining US companies for a decade. But frankly, country of origin is fairly low on the list of issues. It shouldn't matter where they are from.

Flagrant violations of the law like this should be subject to massive fines and criminal charges. That company should get a kick right in the pants to let them and every other company out there that they shouldn't even ****ing think about this for a second.

I mean, what would they have to offer us in return for back channel negotiations? This is a really big deal. It should cause some damage because of just how ballsy and flagrant this was.

Yep. They should be burnt to the ground, like Penn State SHOULD have been.

[Kepler]

Re: Headline News Thread

The drug thing:

I've personally seen people taking/on:

cocaine, LSD, X (slightly different, IMO), marijuana, crank, and mushrooms.

The sticky icky is easily the least harmful. It's not even close.

And yes, alcohol is much more destructive.

I've been pretty sheltered. I've only seen people on alcohol, pot, and of all things LSD. Alcohol is the worst, by far -- it turns passive raging a-holes into active raging a-holes and its lethality from fights and accidents is staggering. Of the three pot is obviously the one that should be legal. It's illegal primarily because of cultural biases (not to mention that it's been a great excuse to build a prison-political complex).

[Bob Gray]

Re: Headline News Thread

I understand what you're saying. I don't agree, though. I think he's mis-ascribing to marijuana what other ages have mis-ascribed to rock music or hot rods or girl/boy craziness... the vast majority of high schoolers weren't designed to be in high school, they were designed to be getting on with life on the farms and in the factories. 90% of high school students have no interest in learning other than picking up a necessary credential, so their high school days pass with all the excitement and alacrity of a wait at the DMV. We ought to have recognized this long ago and adopted a more European system with well-financed and attractive vocational school and internships. There is absolutely no point in teaching high school students who don't care calculus or chemistry -- they will never need nor understand it.

The big difference with European models should be that every kid who wants to go to high school (or college, or graduate school) should be able to go regardless of money. As long as they have the interest, the drive, and enough on the ball to make the grades, they should be able to pursue higher education. But I digress from the main point.

Pot doesn't sidetrack kids who wouldn't have been sidetracked by something else. Pretty much every kid in America smokes pot at some point between 14 and 18 -- those who become tied in with the culture as an obsession are filling up a missing space that with other kids would be filled by family, friends, learning, the arts, sports, etc. Ban pot and those kids will just cut class to talk about whatever the next escape is, because the escape is a rational response to an institution that offers them nothing.

Yes, we disagree. You are mixing a number of issues into the discussion in this post, some of which I actually have some agreement on, but again doesn't take away from the point the veteran teacher was making (and that I heard the same thing from a teacher I know) about pot dulling the senses and interest to learn. I saw it when I was in school and have seen/heard it many times since then. To think pot has no such effect is to me just not facing the reality of the situation. Yes, kids in school have lots of other things going on, some of which contribute to apathy (another reason to home school!).

[Kepler]

Re: Headline News Thread

Yes, we disagree. You are mixing a number of issues into the discussion in this post, some of which I actually have some agreement on, but again doesn't take away from the point the veteran teacher was making (and that I heard the same thing from a teacher I know) about pot dulling the senses and interest to learn. I saw it when I was in school and have seen/heard it many times since then. To think pot has no such effect is to me just not facing the reality of the situation. Yes, kids in school have lots of other things going on, some of which contribute to apathy (another reason to home school!).

Home schooling is just a way for parents to pass on their ignorance to their children more directly.

We don't agree. I don't think a repetition of 1970's "won't someone think of the children" bromides gets us anywhere near the truth. In the minds of Boomers, pot is still closely linked with 60's counter-culture and so it becomes a political agenda item to harass and stigmatize users as a stand-in for re-fighting that decrepit culture war. Hopefully almost everybody under 50 has moved well beyond us. That perspective (both sides of it) is tired and obsolete.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Headline News Thread

Home schooling is just a way for parents to pass on their ignorance to their children more directly.

We don't agree. I don't think a repetition of 1970's "won't someone think of the children" bromides gets us anywhere near the truth. In the minds of Boomers, pot is still closely linked with 60's counter-culture and so it becomes a political agenda item to harass and stigmatize users as a stand-in for re-fighting that decrepit culture war. Hopefully almost everybody under 50 has moved well beyond us. That perspective (both sides of it) is tired and obsolete.

Homeschooling done right is a far superior option to sending your kids off to someone else to educate. Of course not everyone does homeschooling well, just to head that one off at the pass.

Yes, we have vastly different perspectives and understanding on pot. I just don't get folks who won't admit there are problems or potential problems with pot. When people trot out the discussions about how it's not as bad in certain ways as alcohol or other drugs, that's very telling. I guess the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right" is out of fashion also.

[FreshFish]

Re: Headline News Thread

I understand what you're saying. I don't agree, though.

Pot doesn't sidetrack kids who wouldn't have been sidetracked by something else. Pretty much every kid in America smokes pot at some point between 14 and 18

That's not what the research indicates. It appears that smoking marijuana in teen years can have long-term negative effects because the teenage brain is still developing. Chronic marijuana use for 14- and 15-year olds is vastly different than chronic marijuana use by 22-year olds (who hadn't started sooner). I don't have a link handy but I think it was the American Academy of Pediatrics or some such organization that sponsored the research.

[St. Clown]

Re: Headline News Thread

Homeschooling done right is a far superior option to sending your kids off to someone else to educate. Of course not everyone does homeschooling well, just to head that one off at the pass.

Yes, we have vastly different perspectives and understanding on pot. I just don't get folks who won't admit there are problems or potential problems with pot. When people trot out the discussions about how it's not as bad in certain ways as alcohol or other drugs, that's very telling. I guess the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right" is out of fashion also.

From personal observance, I have one brother who used to drink and become really mean, but when he'd smoke a bowl become a mellow fellow. Since he quit drinking, he's a much better guy to know. I don't think he ever quit rocking the ganj'.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Headline News Thread

From personal observance, I have one brother who used to drink and become really mean, but when he'd smoke a bowl become a mellow fellow. Since he quit drinking, he's a much better guy to know. I don't think he ever quit rocking the ganj'.

No doubt smoking pot tends to make people mellow. Which certainly is better than really mean. But there are certainly circumstances when attentiveness, drive, etc. are needed, like in an educational (or many work) setting, and being real mellow (not to mention the developmental issues FF mentions below) would be a hindrance.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Headline News Thread

That's not what the research indicates. It appears that smoking marijuana in teen years can have long-term negative effects because the teenage brain is still developing. Chronic marijuana use for 14- and 15-year olds is vastly different than chronic marijuana use by 22-year olds (who hadn't started sooner). I don't have a link handy but I think it was the American Academy of Pediatrics or some such organization that sponsored the research.

That's precisely why we don't allow people under 21 to buy or possess alcohol. But many drink anyway. That's not a valid reason to legalize pot for the 21+ set, but the continued costs of enforcement are obvious - crowded jails, unnecessary criminal records for simple possession, and the overwhelmingly slanted conviction rate of poor blacks.