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Thread: Headline News Thread

  1. #721
    Anti-Semantic Brenthoven's Avatar
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaNorthStar View Post
    What are these more efficient organizations and practices? And seniority really only helps with scheduling and vacations.

    Unions aren't necessary for every job out there, and certainly aren't perfect, but they are far from useless.
    I mentioned OSHA, for business laws and such. And there's always the ACLU for the social/religion/whatever aspect. Add the FSLA also:https://www.dol.gov/whd/flsa/

    Bigger things than unions happened, because of unions. Awesome. Truly.

    Edit: Seniority also helps with positions. With a certain delivery company or two, it helps with routes AND positions.
    Last edited by Brenthoven; 12-20-2017 at 12:26 AM.
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  2. #722
    Minding the gap MinnesotaNorthStar's Avatar
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    I mentioned OSHA, for business laws and such. And there's always the ACLU for the social/religion/whatever aspect. Add the FSLA also:https://www.dol.gov/whd/flsa/

    Bigger things than unions happened, because of unions. Awesome. Truly.

    Edit: Seniority also helps with positions. With a certain delivery company or two, it helps with routes AND positions.
    I got trained for my current position over people senior to me. If they want that changed they should become involved and try to negotiate it into their next contract.

    The FSLA doesn't prevent my boss from making me work more than 6 days in a row, or telling me to come in at noon instead 2....my union contract does. If I call off sick on Dec 23rd (my last day to work before Christmas), I still get my holiday pay for Christmas. Only union employees at my company get that, because it's in our contracts.

    OSHA and the ACLU will take time to address a problem...my shop steward, or section chair, can deal with it day of.

    I have a complaints about union life too, but in my experience, we're better off in one. Good union leadership will make all the difference.

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  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaNorthStar View Post
    I got trained for my current position over people senior to me. If they want that changed they should become involved and try to negotiate it into their next contract.

    The FSLA doesn't prevent my boss from making me work more than 6 days in a row, or telling me to come in at noon instead 2....my union contract does. If I call off sick on Dec 23rd (my last day to work before Christmas), I still get my holiday pay for Christmas. Only union employees at my company get that, because it's in our contracts.

    OSHA and the ACLU will take time to address a problem...my shop steward, or section chair, can deal with it day of.

    I have a complaints about union life too, but in my experience, we're better off in one. Good union leadership will make all the difference.
    Iíll echo this. OSHA and the ACLU arenít getting your job back and they take a ton of time to resolve, doubly so given our plutocratic slaves running all three branches. A union can get things resolved day of.

  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    Unions had their place and they did well for the workers. Nowadays I don't think they are needed as much, if at all.

  5. #725
    Anti-Semantic Brenthoven's Avatar
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    Wow, unlike JJ and MNS, your response is very well thought-out and detailed.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Sometimes Brent plays "what if Fishy was a little smarter?" I'm hoping it's a bit.
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Here's a good article on why these employees are looking for union representation.

    https://digboston.com/blood-suckers-...agers-bedbugs/
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Sometimes Brent plays "what if Fishy was a little smarter?" I'm hoping it's a bit.
    Just because I am not fond of unions? *shrug*

    Not a bit. It's my opinion. JJ and MNS have their opinions on unions. We disagree, and nothing more.
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    I'd like to see a union of all workers who sit in front of a computer. I have a feeling we're about 70% of the workforce at this point, not to mention 70% of consumption. A general strike and boycott would be extremely effective.

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    Re: Headline News Thread

    One union I've had to deal with at work is so inefficient that it effectively doubles the amount of time to get any work done. It is so bad that for several projects I've worked on we've contracted the work out to a 3rd party company instead of doing it in-house and dealing with the union. Projects got done in half the time as they would have, and at a higher quality.
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    IMO, I don't think min wage laws are solely union anymore. As I said, many more orgs are out there.

    I've been in warehousing for 23 years, none union. The biggest complaints I hear from union workers?
    1. Union strikes? I can't cross, or I'll be a scab and will be frowned upon for anything good that comes up in the future.
    2. Seniority. Doesn't matter if I can do the job better. Seniority wins out.

    Unions started something very good, but they have outlived their usefulness, due to more efficient (and more in number) orgs and practices.
    My own observation about unions.

    First, I don't necessarily see unions as the mortal enemy that some more conservative people, or some business people, might. They can actually be a useful tool for businesses, whether it's insuring that you'll have enough electricians on the job site to finish the project, to enforcing certain employment rules. When an employee starts complaining about something, it is nice to have the second voice of the union basically telling the employee that nothing can be done about it.

    That said, I personally would not want to be in a union because they have the effect of making everyone "average" in terms of wages, benefits, promotions, etc... When I was an employee, I tried to be of a mindset that if I looked to my left, I was a better employee than the person standing beside me, and if I looked to my right, I was a better employee than that person, too.

    I really don't think the value of unions for employees is in the area of wages/benefits or protection from termination. I personally have had at least five instances in the last 30 years involving a union where we wanted to increase the pay of employees mid-contract to remain competitive in the employee marketplace. In a couple of instances we just elected to wait until the contract was up, but in two of the instances we actually had to go to the union and "negotiate" a mid-contract pay increase (an employer can't grant it unilaterally).

    Also, even though many non-union employers can terminate employees for any reason so long as it doesn't violate something like human rights laws, most employers don't act arbitrarily like that. I know for me it is too hard and too expensive to find and train employees. I'm not going to fire them just because I can. If there is a real reason to fire them, I'll be able to meet any "just cause" requirements of a union contract.

    The primary benefit for employees in being in a union frequently depends upon the type of job. I personally don't think your average administrative assistant sitting in an office building at the Minnesota state capitol needs to be unionized. But for jobs like MNS is talking about, or jobs in the healthcare industry or restaurant service industry, a union can obtain certain benefits that employees won't otherwise be able to obtain. For instance, a requirement that an employee called in on their day off receive at least "x" hours of pay. That way you don't get called in for just an hour or something.

    I think the union system does create some problems for employees. As you alluded to, a strike can put employees in life altering situations, especially if they happen to be a relatively young or new employee. The seniority system can also result in a "s h ! t rolls down hill" workplace where it's always the young, new employees who have to get called in on all the weekends and holidays, etc..., making it very hard to attract and retain new employees.

    It's not a perfect system, and as I said, I wouldn't want to be in one, but it also isn't the major obstacle to business it's sometimes made out to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    Wow, unlike JJ and MNS, your response is very well thought-out and detailed.
    Because "unions were once necessary, but aren't any more" is a completely original thought and hasn't been the calling card of Republicans since forever?

    FFS, I said the same thing when I was an 18-year old in Nebraska and fully indoctrinated. I grew up. What's your excuse?
    Last edited by unofan; 12-20-2017 at 09:10 AM.

  13. #733
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    I used to say the same thing. Even as recently as 2010. I quickly realized that without any collective bargaining power for white collar jobs, we've seen stagnant wage growth as those jobs replaced blue collar jobs.

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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    I used to say the same thing. Even as recently as 2010. I quickly realized that without any collective bargaining power for white collar jobs, we've seen stagnant wage growth as those jobs replaced blue collar jobs.
    Correct.
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    I worked at UPS for 8 years and rarely had any issues with the union guys. Sure a few of them were malcontents that would push buttons to see what they could get away with, but when called to the carpet they would ultimately get the job done and at UPS we didn't eff around with inefficiency. I didn't envy any of those guys from Thanksgiving through the end of the year either. I did ride-a-longs often during the holiday season and they earned every penny we paid them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    I worked at UPS for 8 years and rarely had any issues with the union guys. Sure a few of them were malcontents that would push buttons to see what they could get away with, but when called to the carpet they would ultimately get the job done and at UPS we didn't eff around with inefficiency. I didn't envy any of those guys from Thanksgiving through the end of the year either. I did ride-a-longs often during the holiday season and they earned every penny we paid them.
    Yeah, thereís a reason I havenít become a driver. But even the air ramp is pretty bad after Thanksgiving.

  17. #737
    Anti-Semantic Brenthoven's Avatar
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    I'm not a union hater. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of them, but I'm not actively out to get rid of them, which is a bit different. JJ and MNS both stated valid reasons on why they like unions. Fair posts.

    It depends on what angle you see them as, and therefore, some different opinions are going to come out.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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  18. #738
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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    I worked at UPS for 8 years and rarely had any issues with the union guys. Sure a few of them were malcontents that would push buttons to see what they could get away with, but when called to the carpet they would ultimately get the job done and at UPS we didn't eff around with inefficiency. I didn't envy any of those guys from Thanksgiving through the end of the year either. I did ride-a-longs often during the holiday season and they earned every penny we paid them.

    I was a seasonal driver one season.

    I'm still scarred.

    It wasn't the physical aspects as you get used to it. It's 100% mental as it feels like the truck will never be empty. You've done hours and hours and look back and the truck is still full.

    Delivering packages at 9:00PM to nicely decorated, warm homes is a lonely endeavor at this time of year too.

    I'm amazed at what those people get done in this short window.


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    Re: Headline News Thread

    A bad cause requires many words.

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    Re: Headline News Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Anger can be power. Know that you can use it.
    Never, never, never, never respond in anger.
    Always, always, always respond with forethought and intent.
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