The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

[FreshFish]

I've been waiting for someone to start the new thread since "The 4th Global War on Terror" closed.....events of the past few weeks make it a timely topic again.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

How many of us played "Risk" as kids?

Eerie how it seems to be playing out in real life these days.

I saw a fascinating article somewhere about how risky Putin's strategy might be....for Putin.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese work in Siberia. Putin himself has now given China the pretext to move troops into Siberia to protect the well-being of its citizens......

[FreshFish]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

It seems like Putin has already effectively annexed the Crimea. He will threaten the rest of eastern Ukraine too, and then allow himself to be "dissuaded" from moving any further, and our modern-day appeasement movement will be so relieved that they will let him keep Crimea.

Hey, why not? He already tried it before, in Georgia, several years ago, and it worked then! Why not now?

[JF_Gophers]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

why should we care about the Ukraine? also why are we giving them a billion dollars that we dont have?

we need to stay home for awhile and let someone else play world police.

[Rover]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

why should we care about the Ukraine? also why are we giving them a billion dollars that we dont have?

we need to stay home for awhile and let someone else play world police.

I don't mind giving them financial aid but that's about as far as I'm willing to go beyond sanctioning the Russian regime. Ukraine could have joined NATO over the last 20 years but didn't. They've also gone back and forth between electing Russian sympathizers vs Western leaners. They have their own military. I'd suggest they use it.

Last time neoconartists tried to build somebody up as an unstoppable boogeyman bent on regional dominance it was Saddam Hussein, and we all know how that turned out.

[LynahFan]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

why should we care about the Ukraine? also why are we giving them a billion dollars that we dont have?

we need to stay home for awhile and let someone else play world police.

If the average household in the US makes $65,000 (pretty close to correct based on Wiki - median is $50K, but average is dragged upward by the 1%), and they pay on average 15% in federal income taxes, then a billion dollars are the annual taxes paid by approximately 100,000 households.

Something to keep in mind when thinking about the impact of throwing a few billion around here and there.

[JF_Gophers]

If the average household in the US makes $65,000 (pretty close to correct based on Wiki - median is $50K, but average is dragged upward by the 1%), and they pay on average 15% in federal income taxes, then a billion dollars are the annual taxes paid by approximately 100,000 households.

Something to keep in mind when thinking about the impact of throwing a few billion around here and there.

oh then lets just pay off all our countries debts this week too since we have so many free billions to hand out.

[St. Clown]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Why do these actions taken by Russia/Putin constitute inclusion in the global war on terror thread?

[FreshFish]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Why do these actions taken by Russia/Putin constitute inclusion in the global war on terror thread?

I sure hope you are right in your assessment and it turns out that it doesn't belong here after all!



My fear is that either we are seeing the start of Cold War II or World War III unfolding in slow motion....gradually annexing other countries' territory under the pretext of protecting one's own citizens living there?

We had the Anschluss in Austria in March 1938, the annexation of Sudetenland in September 1938....the historical parallels are a bit scary. A dictator always finds it easier to prop up the regime at home by focusing attention abroad, rallying nationalist fervor to the cause.

Putin's hold on power is shaky because he depends upon the cash flow generated by high oil prices to prop up an otherwise dysfunctional economy.


We don't care that he annexed part of Georgia....we don't care when he annexes the Crimea....we won't care when he next annexes part of another country.....nor the one after that.....will we eventually care?




There are plenty of robust responses we could use now that don't involve billion-dollar loans nor military force. Putin is vulnerable and we can strike him where it really hurts. There are plenty of excellent articles that go into details.

[Rover]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Ahhhh...the classic "He's the NEXT HITLER!!!!!!" argument.

If European counties are worried about Russian influence, join NATO.

It needs to be a similar situation to what's happening in Asia. Countries such as Myanmar and Vietnam have been getting a lot more cozy with the US lately as they worry about Chinese influence in their territorial waters. Smart move on their part, and one any concerned former Soviet republics ought to emulate (and in the Baltic states case, already have).

[LynahFan]

oh then lets just pay off all our countries debts this week too since we have so many free billions to hand out.

whooosh.

My point was that a billion is a BIG number, not a small one. When increasing spending by a billion dollars, you're effectively asking 100,000 US households to put in an extra year of labor to pay for it. That's an additional 2 million worker-hours that the economy has to provide, so we SHOULDN'T just be throwing around a billion here and there down random foreign aid black holes. A billion represents a whole lot of blood, sweat, and tears from American workers - and for what, exactly, in this situation?

Ukraine doomed themselves by not joining NATO during the good years, so we're not going to defend them in the bad ones. If Putin wants Ukraine, or even just the eastern half, there's not a darn thing we can, will, or should do about it, so why are we even wasting one billion on this fool's errand?

[St. Clown]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I sure hope you are right in your assessment and it turns out that it doesn't belong here after all!



My fear is that either we are seeing the start of Cold War II or World War III unfolding in slow motion....gradually annexing other countries' territory under the pretext of protecting one's own citizens living there?

We had the Anschluss in Austria in March 1938, the annexation of Sudetenland in September 1938....the historical parallels are a bit scary. A dictator always finds it easier to prop up the regime at home by focusing attention abroad, rallying nationalist fervor to the cause.

Putin's hold on power is shaky because he depends upon the cash flow generated by high oil prices to prop up an otherwise dysfunctional economy.


We don't care that he annexed part of Georgia....we don't care when he annexes the Crimea....we won't care when he next annexes part of another country.....nor the one after that.....will we eventually care?




There are plenty of robust responses we could use now that don't involve billion-dollar loans nor military force. Putin is vulnerable and we can strike him where it really hurts. There are plenty of excellent articles that go into details.

My point is that we see a confrontation between two separate nations, both with arguing through their elected bodies. Why does that get this situation included in a war on terror thread?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Do whatever John McCain and Lindsey Graham want. It's only money.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Ahhhh...the classic [whistling past the graveyard response]...

What part of "there are plenty of ways to stand up to Putin that don't involve loan guarantees and don't involve military force" is so hard for you to understand?

You do have room for that under your umbrella, don't you Neville?

[FreshFish]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Why does that get this situation included in a war on terror thread?

Vladimir "visions of empire" Putin: "Let us do what we want or we will go to war."

i.e., "give us what we want or we will unleash violence against you."


or is this merely a semantic quibble? "yeah he's threatening war, but so what, since he leads a country, it cannot be terrorism?"