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Thread: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

  1. #61
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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    For those who didn't read the attached article:

    Kenyan Wilson Kipsang won this year's Berlin Marathon in 2 hours, 3 minutes and 23 seconds — an average of 4:42 per mile. It was easily the fastest marathon time ever recorded, an incredible feat for another powerful Kenyan runner.

    But perhaps equally remarkable was that his fellow Kenyans also came in second, third, fourth and fifth place in this major international race. On the women's side, Kenyans placed first, second and fourth.

    Two weeks later in Chicago, Kenyan runner Dennis Kimetto broke the course record there — after only having run for four years. Next in line behind him? Three more Kenyans.

    "If you look at it statistically, it sort of becomes laughable," says David Epstein, senior editor at Sports Illustrated and author of the new book The Sports Gene.

    He says that while we tend to think of Kenyans as really good distance runners, all these runners are actually from the same tribe of Kenyans known as the Kalenjin. They number around 5 million, making them a small minority, even in Kenya, yet they dominate most of the world's long-distance races.

    "There are 17 American men in history who have run under 2:10 in the marathon," Epstein says. "There were 32 Kalenjin who did it in October of 2011."


    So because other countries take running seriously but they get seriously beat than it is ok because of international interest?

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by northhockey View Post
    So because other countries take running seriously but they get seriously beat than it is ok because of international interest?
    Yeah, taking small sample sizes allows you to prove anything. Let's look back at the Olympics of the recent past.

    2012 Men's Marathon: Gold - Stephen Kiprotich (Uganda); Silver - Abel Kirui (Kenya); Bronze - Wilson Kiprotich (Kenya)
    2008 Men's Marathon: Gold - Samuel Wanjiru (Kenya); Silver - Jaouad Gharib (Morocco); Tsegay Kebede (Ethiopia)
    2004 Men's Marathon: Gold - Stefano Baldidni (Italy); Silver - Mebrahtom Keflezighi (USA); Vanderlei de Lima (Brazil)
    2000 Men's Marathon: Gold - Gezahegne Abera (Ethiopia); Erick Wainaina (Kenya); Tesfaye Tola (Ethiopia)
    1996 Men's Marathon: Gold - Josia Thugwane (South Africa); Lee Bong-Ju (South Korea); Bronze - Erick Wainaina (Kenya)

    If you think that looks anything like what women's hockey has, or says that the sport has been dominated by athletes from one or two countries, you're lying to yourself. If you dig in a little deeper and look at the times what you find is that most of them have been pretty close races.

    If women's hockey fans are determined to feel like the world just has it in for them I suppose I can't stop you but no one is going to be impressed by the pity party. If you want it in the Olympics, then the national sports federations are going to have to step up to keep it there.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    And the commentators in the game just gave an example of what can't continue if women's hockey is going to remain an Olympic sport. The U.S. and Canadian teams have been centralized for six months. The Swiss team, one of the top four in the world, has been together for a total of 40 days over the last year. And it isn't just the players that are part time. Their coach has a full time job as an operations manager in a factory. The sport isn't sustainable with that sort of disparity between the top two teams and everyone else.

    The age of part time athletes in the Olympics is over.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Veritas View Post
    I fail to understand the talk of dropping womens hockey because of US-Camada dominance. Will the summer Olympics drop the marathon due to dominance by Kenyans and Tanzanians. Will long track speed skating be droppeddue to too many Dutch medals. Maybe drop cross country skiing due to Norwegian and Swedish dominance. Some nations excel at some sports and some nations excel at others.
    Poor Comparison. I happen to be very knowledgable on two of the three sports you cited.

    Running is a universal sport, and the Marathon is one of the marquee events of the Olympics. While runners from central and north africa have dominated this sport since the mid-eighties, it involves runners from many countries. In addition the sport has a long and storied history in many countries, including the USA. Inclusion of that sport in the Olympics is a given.

    While the Dutch have dominated the speedskating sport in the longer distances most of the time in the last 40 years, there are many other countries strong in the event, specially the shorter events. Countries like Norway and Russia have a storied history in the sport. The most decorated women in the sport are Lydia Skoblikova, who was involved with the opening ceremonies, from Russia and Claudia Pechstein from Germany. The most decorated skaters amongst the men are Ballangrud, a Norwegian and Thunburg, a Fin. Bottom line is that it is not a sport supper dominated by one or two countries, far from it. (Having said that, the Dutch just swept another event in Sochi)
    Last edited by OnMAA; 02-10-2014 at 10:42 AM.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Veritas View Post
    Unrelated question - what is with the 2008 WCHA championship. What happened??? Did not see anything about it online.
    In the 2007-2008 season, Minn-Duluth has Iya Gavrilova playing for them from the beginning of the season until the end of January. At that point she was kept off the ice because it had been discovered that she had played 'professionally' in Russia prior. After about a year, the NCAA finally ruled that Duluth had to vacate any wins Gavrilova had been involved in, and in turn vacate their WCHA regular season championship. Duluth was allowed to "keep" their WCHA tourney championship and NCAA championship (because they achieved those without Gavrilova participating). Gavrilova had 41 points in 26 games before being held off the ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    And the commentators in the game just gave an example of what can't continue if women's hockey is going to remain an Olympic sport. The U.S. and Canadian teams have been centralized for six months. The Swiss team, one of the top four in the world, has been together for a total of 40 days over the last year. And it isn't just the players that are part time. Their coach has a full time job as an operations manager in a factory. The sport isn't sustainable with that sort of disparity between the top two teams and everyone else.

    The age of part time athletes in the Olympics is over.
    Really good point.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    During Sunday's broadcast it was reported that Germany is threatening to pull financial support for their women's team if they don't finish at least sixth in the tournament. Most of the European countries seem to expect to get something out of a program into which they've invested very little.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Raty still shutting out Canada after two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnMAA View Post
    Raty still shutting out Canada after two.
    1-0 Agosta on PP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    1-0 Agosta on PP
    2-0 Hefford with a great effort and shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    2-0 Hefford with a great effort and shot.
    3-0 Johnston on a great feed from Hefford. That should do it.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    3-0 Johnston on a great feed from Hefford. That should do it.
    Yup two games in and Canada and USA already placed in the semis.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by OnMAA View Post
    Poor Comparison. I happen to be very knowledgable on two of the three sports you cited.

    Running is a universal sport, and the Marathon is one of the marquee events of the Olympics. While runners from central and north africa have dominated this sport since the mid-eighties, it involves runners from many countries. In addition the sport has a long and storied history in many countries, including the USA. Inclusion of that sport in the Olympics is a given.

    While the Dutch have dominated the speedskating sport in the longer distances most of the time in the last 40 years, there are many other countries strong in the event, specially the shorter events. Countries like Norway and Russia have a storied history in the sport. The most decorated women in the sport are Lydia Skoblikova, who was involved with the opening ceremonies, from Russia and Claudia Pechstein from Germany. The most decorated skaters amongst the men are Ballangrud, a Norwegian and Thunburg, a Fin. Bottom line is that it is not a sport supper dominated by one or two countries, far from it. (Having said that, the Dutch just swept another event in Sochi)
    Difference is also that Hockey is a team sport - 1 or 2 elite athletes may not be enough to effectively compete for a medal.

  14. #74
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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    It's not too soon to get up for the game I hope...

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10430777

    USA!!
    MINNESOTA HOCKEY

    like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of UNH women's hockey.


  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnMAA View Post
    Poor Comparison. I happen to be very knowledgable on two of the three sports you cited.

    Running is a universal sport, and the Marathon is one of the marquee events of the Olympics. While runners from central and north africa have dominated this sport since the mid-eighties, it involves runners from many countries. In addition the sport has a long and storied history in many countries, including the USA. Inclusion of that sport in the Olympics is a given.

    While the Dutch have dominated the speedskating sport in the longer distances most of the time in the last 40 years, there are many other countries strong in the event, specially the shorter events. Countries like Norway and Russia have a storied history in the sport. The most decorated women in the sport are Lydia Skoblikova, who was involved with the opening ceremonies, from Russia and Claudia Pechstein from Germany. The most decorated skaters amongst the men are Ballangrud, a Norwegian and Thunburg, a Fin. Bottom line is that it is not a sport supper dominated by one or two countries, far from it. (Having said that, the Dutch just swept another event in Sochi)
    The difference lies not in the result itself, but the margin of victory. If the speed skater, Nordic skier, etc. were lapping the field on the way to victory there would be a hue and cry. Win by a decent time and not many will complain.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by OnMAA View Post
    Yup two games in and Canada and USA already placed in the semis.
    Apparently some endangered species eat their own young. Can't be helped.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Hux View Post
    The difference lies not in the result itself, but the margin of victory. If the speed skater, Nordic skier, etc. were lapping the field on the way to victory there would be a hue and cry. Win by a decent time and not many will complain.
    Agree 100%.

    One other note. In sports like long distance running there is a lot of exporting. African Born runners competing for nations like Denmark, Italy and the USA AND winning medals for their adopted countries. Not a lot of that going on in Women's hockey. A lot of that is driven by economics. A good Kenyan runner can make money to make a living of it. There are many that are housed in Europe and the USA doing so. Same cannot be said about women's hockey, hence the disparity continues.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by OnMAA View Post
    One other note. In sports like long distance running there is a lot of exporting. African Born runners competing for nations like Denmark, Italy and the USA AND winning medals for their adopted countries. Not a lot of that going on in Women's hockey. A lot of that is driven by economics. A good Kenyan runner can make money to make a living of it. There are many that are housed in Europe and the USA doing so. Same cannot be said about women's hockey, hence the disparity continues.
    An individual sport like marathoning or most speedskating is inherently a different proposition than a team sport like ice hockey. You can have a great competition in a marathon even if all of the top finishers are Kenyan. And that would be true even if the top finishers in Olympic marathons really were always Kenyan.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Have you watched women's basketball at the Olympics lately? There isn't much in the way of parity. On a good day, Australia can keep it close when playing the U.S. Canada? France? They may be some of the better programs in the world, but they aren't on the same level. So if we want to indict women's hockey, let's get rid of all of the sports where one or two countries are better than the rest. If the European countries put some effort into it, they could close the gap considerably in hockey. In women's basketball, most of these countries are nowhere compared to all of the infrastructure in place in the U.S.

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    Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Every Olympic venue has more than one building with refrigeration for ice and seats for sale. Every time the Olympics are held the IOC has a TV schedule to fill.

    If women's hockey is eliminated the host city will have a building standing empty with empty seats unsold. That doesn't make business sense. The IOC and the host city would have to come up with even more "X game" events to fill empty hours in the arena and to meet the demands of the TV sponsors.

    This time the IOC has added this new "team" event for figure skating. This is useful for filling up some more TV time and for filling some more ice time (allowing more tickets to be sold) in the main ice arena. The issue here is that there isn't enough ice time in the main arena for both the sparkly costume skating set and the NHL all stars divided by country men's hockey tournament. To hold both of those big revenue events they need two arenas. As long as there is a second arena used mostly for the men's hockey there will continue to be plenty of ice time available for the women's event.

    So with two arenas probably required for the modern TV Olympics the cost to the organizers for putting on two hockey tournaments is probably not significantly higher than the cost for putting on only the men. The money has already been spent anyway and the women's event sells tickets and fills the TV schedule. I can't imagine a business reason why in the current configuration the women's tournament would go away.
    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

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