2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

[Blackbeard]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

On a related note, I think it was the US D (not sure which one) who pushed the puck through Vetter's pads while trying to "help" her by putting the puck in her reach, right?

I believe it was Carpenter.

Feel badly for her...similar to the two German players who had the puck bounce off them and into their own net.

[brookyone]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

With the importance of these games I will never understand the bypassing of so many qualified refs in the world, just to make sure the person with the armband has a ponytail and is not from the US or Canada.

I'll take my chances with possible bias with a CAN or US woman wearing the orange or having a male ref for the CAN-US matchup, rather than watch this buffoonery.

Seconded.

[David De Remer]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Regardless of who you support, the officials clearly had an impact on the game outcome.

As mentioned, the official got mixed up in the play on the third Canadian goal.

The second goal was either a quick whistle or a blown call. And the quick whistle that becomes a goal can also be problematic if the U.S. had some chance to stop the puck (most likely not), but it's not as simple as the blown call negates the quick whistle as some say. Either way, I hate to see the U.S. allow such a soft goal. I think it was Carpenter who tried to stuff the puck under Vetter after Vetter missed covering the loose puck, but it trickled through her. Never seen that before, certainly never to Vetter.

[Blackbeard]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Is Haley Irwin suiting up for team Canada? Injured? Haven't been following too closely . . . but, haven't heard her name yet during the Olympics?

Injured and a few days ago Campbell was saying that they are trying to speed up the recovery process so that she can play. I think she said that they were hopeful for today but that doesn't seem to have worked out.

[hab]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Well, the rule is, I believe, (i) the refs should blow the whistle when they lose sight of the puck, and (ii) it is a goal only if the puck went in prior to the whistle being blown. Even if you argue the whistle was blown to soon, it is obvious from the review the puck did not go in before the whistle. Calling it a goal was a bad call.

Regardless, that 3rd goal was all USA's mistake, and the fact that USA had hardly any shots in the 3rd is worrisome.

Question: Should that last penalty have been a delayed penalty since USA was on a rush with full possession. I thought it was an offsides call at first.

I think it was a good goal. Vetter never had control of the puck, and on the replay I thought that I heard the whistle just as the puck was crossing the line. I would think that the replay that the refs looked at satisfied them that the puck was across the line when the whistle sounded.

[Aerman]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

At least the reffing is consistent - BAD. Watched replay of Russia/Japan yesterday. Russia wins by one, but refs stole two good goals from the Japanese.

[ARM]

I think it was a good goal. Vetter never had control of the puck, and on the replay I thought that I heard the whistle just as the puck was crossing the line. I would think that the replay that the refs looked at satisfied them that the puck was across the line when the whistle sounded.

I agree. Whether by rule or not it should have counted, in spirit, it was definitely a goal. It is hard to win a US/Canada game when you give up an own goal and then turn the puck over just inside your offensive blue line.

And yes, the ref played a big part in the latter. Can we all agree that the athletes deserve better officiating than they are given? The problem is that these female officials have no experience in working a game that is this fast and physical, so they are overmatched from the drop of the puck. There must be a lot of NHL officials available over the next week. At least for the elimination games, get them in there and I'll take my chances on them learning new rules. The current officials are far too involved in changing outcomes.

[brookyone]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I think it was a good goal. Vetter never had control of the puck, and on the replay I thought that I heard the whistle just as the puck was crossing the line. I would think that the replay that the refs looked at satisfied them that the puck was across the line when the whistle sounded.

I have no trouble with the goal from an officiating standpoint...in that, regardless of the whistle...before, after, there's no way that puck should end up in the net. Someone opined that's on Vetter. I agree.

At least the reffing is consistent - BAD. Watched replay of Russia/Japan yesterday. Russia wins by one, but refs stole two good goals from the Japanese.

Hence my pre-tournament concerns with officiating. Fairly clear there are some officials whose qualifications are suspect...experience perhaps lacking as well. Unfortunately impacting games. ARM is right about officials being overmatched for the speed and physical aspect of these games. I'll second again what hockeynut mentioned regarding any priority of a female official vs. the best qualified official is a poor priority for the pinnacle, ultimate competition in the sport.

[hockeynut]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

On a related note, I think it was the US D (not sure which one) who pushed the puck through Vetter's pads while trying to "help" her by putting the puck in her reach, right?

How 'bout the other US player standing around watching, rather than swooping behind her goalie to shore things up. Bozek?

I have more problems with the US players on Goal 2 than with the refs. If the roles are reversed, I'm wanting that goal to count for the US.

Fun to dissect this game. Reality is that the game that matters is in a few days!

[Birdwatcher]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I agree. Whether by rule or not it should have counted, in spirit, it was definitely a goal. It is hard to win a US/Canada game when you give up an own goal and then turn the puck over just inside your offensive blue line.

And yes, the ref played a big part in the latter. Can we all agree that the athletes deserve better officiating than they are given? The problem is that these female officials have no experience in working a game that is this fast and physical, so they are overmatched from the drop of the puck. There must be a lot of NHL officials available over the next week. At least for the elimination games, get them in there and I'll take my chances on them learning new rules. The current officials are far too involved in changing outcomes.

+1

[robertearle]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Reality is that the game that matters is in a few days!

Today was the "winner doesn't have to play Finland again" game. Today mattered.

[ARM]

How 'bout the other US player standing around watching, rather than swooping behind her goalie to shore things up. Bozek?

I think the US players made the mistake of assuming that Vetter had it when she whiffed on her first attempt to cover the puck. Unfortately, she then missed it a second time when Carpenter gave it back to her. A multitude of sins committed by the U.S. on one play, and a goal that is almost impossible to overcome at this level. Vetter also made some big stops, like the one in the third period where the U.S. defenseman fell asleep off of a faceoff and allowed a Canadian player to stand alone on the doorstep. At the end when the extra attacker was on, there were a couple of players working to get the puck and a few more standing and watching. Were they tired? If so, then maybe the fear of not having a fourth line is being realized.

Pick a player on the U.S. team, go back and watch the game, and you'll see her making mistakes. Rather than throwing individuals under the bus, I'll just say that I think that the U.S. team as a whole needs to play cleaner should they meet the Canadians again if the outcome is going to change.

[hockey13]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Yes, should have been delayed. Then to let the US mill around at the bench as they did was terrible. (I'm a US fan)

Actually go look at goal 3 again. The Ref set an awesome pick in the Canada zone to get the whole thing started. Would be nice if she knew where to stand.

With the importance of these games I will never understand the bypassing of so many qualified refs in the world, just to make sure the person with the armband has a ponytail and is not from the US or Canada.

I'll take my chances with possible bias with a CAN or US woman wearing the orange or having a male ref for the CAN-US matchup, rather than watch this buffoonery.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if there was some reason it wouldn't be delayed that I wasn't thinking about.

Agree. In the history of olympic women's ice hockey, it just seems like the officiating has always been disappointing, but this year seems particularly bad. We just shouldn't be talking about officiating this often - we should be talking about the substance of the games, but the officiating is hard to ignore. I'm a US fan, but I'm trying to be neutral.

You make a good point about neutral refs: since all college hockey is in North America (I think - maybe I'm wrong), when two North American teams play each other, you end up with refs who really have far less experience with games of this caliber.

Don't get me wrong - the game was still a great one to watch.

[hab]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I agree with others on here that the refs have not been good. Often in women's hockey when you have refs doing games above their usual level the biggest problem is that they call too many body contact penalties. That wasn't the case here...they let a lot of body contact go. The biggest problem was their positioning on the ice...the game just seemed too fast for them with the result that they were too often in a poor position to make a call, or were unable to get out of the way of the play quickly enough.

I think this is another symptom of the growing pains of the international game. With only two or three countries playing at a high level, top officials will be concentrated in those countries and I don't think that Olympic principles would allow you to pull all of the officials from those countries. One suggestion that I have heard, is to use European refs who do men's hockey, but that also presents problems in that they may lack familiarity with the difficult judgement calls on what is and is not acceptable body contact in the women's game.

[Blackbeard]

Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Today was the "winner doesn't have to play Finland again" game. Today mattered.

Exactly.

Team Finland is for real.