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2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

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  • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

    Totally agree. Did the US make mistakes that led to that goal? Absolutely. Was the whistle too quick? Maybe, and maybe because the ref was out of position and so lost sight of a puck she should have been able to see. I'm be mad if I were on the Canadian team if it had not counted as a goal. But quick whistles happen - to everyone. Once they do, you have to follow the rules. We don't want refs deciding it's not really a goal under the rules, but we're going to call it one because really it should have been a goal. Maybe Vetter sweeps her leg and pulls the puck out if she doesn't hear a whistle. Maybe a US D pulls it out at the last second. Neither of those are very likely, but that's the reason for the rule dis-allowing goals after the whistle. And by the way, I'm not saying Canada shouldn't have won. Maybe if they don't count the goal, Canada gets fired up and scores 6 seconds later. Just commenting on the officiating.

    Maybe the NBC Sports feed moved the sound of the whistle up to create controversy and boost ratings.

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    • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

      Originally posted by robertearle View Post
      Today was the "winner doesn't have to play Finland again" game. Today mattered.
      I don't know. RATy will see too much rubber to win the game single-handledly. And the Fins will have to score to win. The issue may get mental for the US if it's a one goal game or a tie going into the 3rd period. They will have to stay loose and play their systems confidently.

      Having not watched the game yet, I would have hoped Stone would have made in game changes to the plan to counter what the canucks were doing to their breakout.
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      • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

        A thing that I'd like to know more about is whether or not that play was reviewable.
        According to Doc, whether or not the whistle blew is not a reviewable play, meaning that the refs never should have had a chance to go to the tape and call it a goal.
        Now, I know nothing about the rule book, so I'm merely repeating, but it's another interesting twist and another on the list of ref sins.

        Complaining about the refs should be coming from both sides, though. There were a lot of non-calls on hits, the too-many men instances and the "extra time-out" that US got. Neither fanbase is being homer-y when they get upset about the impact the refs had on the game.
        It's a great day for hockey!

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        • Originally posted by tristarscoop View Post
          According to Doc, whether or not the whistle blew is not a reviewable play, meaning that the refs never should have had a chance to go to the tape and call it a goal.
          What was the call on the ice? From what I could tell, the ref never made one either way. She didn't point at the goal, and she didn't wave it off.
          "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
          And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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          • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

            Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
            I would have hoped Stone would have made in game changes to the plan to counter what the canucks were doing to their breakout.
            this is where the Canucks have a big advantage, former NHL coach should be able to do a better job of implementing and adapting a forecheck than a college coach

            Originally posted by tristarscoop View Post
            According to Doc, whether or not the whistle blew is not a reviewable play, meaning that the refs never should have had a chance to go to the tape and call it a goal.
            this is the Olympics, rules are made up and modified on the fly

            Originally posted by ARM View Post
            The problem is that these female officials have no experience in working a game that is this fast and physical, so they are overmatched from the drop of the puck.
            yep, they should be waiting tables or housecleaning in the hotels

            Canada has been whining about the outcome of the US-Canada soccer match from the last summer Olympics, blaming it on the official, so now that they got the benefit of a bad call by an official hopefully they'll stop whining about it and accept being vanquished by Team USA
            Last edited by pokechecker; 02-12-2014, 01:23 PM.

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            • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

              Originally posted by tristarscoop View Post
              A thing that I'd like to know more about is whether or not that play was reviewable.
              According to Doc, whether or not the whistle blew is not a reviewable play, meaning that the refs never should have had a chance to go to the tape and call it a goal.
              Now, I know nothing about the rule book, so I'm merely repeating, but it's another interesting twist and another on the list of ref sins.
              I was a bit confused too, but what I think he was trying to say was the usual rule that you can't review and change when the whistle actually occurred - e.g. after a quick whistle, you can't then say you should have never blown the whistle and allow the goal to stand. But you can always review whether or not a goal occurred before or after the whistle.

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              • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

                Originally posted by hab View Post
                ...they let a lot of body contact go. The biggest problem was their positioning on the ice...the game just seemed too fast for them with the result that they were too often in a poor position to make a call, or were unable to get out of the way of the play quickly enough.
                But there was no "they", "their" and "them" . . . just "she" and "her," right? Having more than one ref (with or without ponytail) would certainly help address penalty, positioning and goal review issues.

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                • Originally posted by driventoit View Post
                  Having more than one ref (with or without ponytail) would certainly help address penalty, positioning and goal review issues.
                  Agreed, with the exception of the officials being in the way. If they can't move enough to get out of the players' and puck's way, then they are just one more obstacle. But overall, I agree that assuming the referees added were competent, it would be a big plus.
                  "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                  And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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                  • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

                    Originally posted by hab View Post
                    The biggest problem was their positioning on the ice...the game just seemed too fast for them with the result that they were too often in a poor position to make a call, or were unable to get out of the way of the play quickly enough.
                    Possibly the wider surface affects positioning with just 1 ref.

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                    • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

                      Originally posted by brookyone View Post
                      I'll second again what hockeynut mentioned regarding any priority of a female official vs. the best qualified official is a poor priority for the pinnacle, ultimate competition in the sport.
                      I'll have an easier time accepting this argument once it's the case that the best person to officiate or coach in the men's game is a woman. What this argument boils down to in practice is that men should get all of the gigs in men's sports and most of them in women's. The ideal of hiring the best person for the job is such a farce that it's better to discard it altogether than to prop up just the one piece of it.

                      That said, the officiating in this tournament has been beyond terrible. Set aside the blown penalty calls; they can't even communicate with each other or get the rules right. There's the goal Japan should have had, but the most comedic moment came in this morning's Finland/Switzerland game. With the two teams playing 4-on-4, the Swiss were called for a penalty (and handing out a major for kicking on that was one of the few times I've been pleasantly surprised by a call). After some confusion, the ref signaled for five Finns to be on the ice for the ensuing face-off. So, when the coincidental penalties expired thirteen seconds later, the Finns were suddenly playing with too many men. It wasn't a judgment call; it was just a ref who had no idea what she was doing.

                      I'll also say that, as much as I agree the refs have let too much checking to go on, U.S. fans really shouldn't be complaining about it because Kendall Coyne should have missed today's game as she sat out a suspension for the elbow that laid out Lara Stalder.

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                      • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

                        Regardless of today's outcome, I don't know how you justify having only 1 ref at this level of competition - Olympics, Worlds, Nations etc...

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                        • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

                          Congrats to Canada for playing a solid game, particularly in the 3rd period keeping the US away from their net. Congratulations aside, the refs call on the 2nd goal was one of the worst calls I have ever witnessed. The officiating crew was clearly was out of their depth today ( missing 2 of the 3 too many players instances and some curious inconsistencies in body contact penalties on both sides of the equation.) The call on the goal, however, was the doozy since it had a major impact on the game and it was absolutely wrong. Not sure what the video review rules are and if there is audio involved but as far as the officiating guidelines are- the play is actually dead when the referee makes the DECISION to blow the whistle and that equalises referees in their ability to get their whistle blown and any physical limitations to that happening. e.g. I am the ref and i lose sight of the puck and decide to blow my whistle, while i am in the process of getting the whistle blown when a player bumps into me and I can't get the whistle in my mouth for a second or two. meanwhile the puck squirts out and into the net. A good referee will disallow the goal, despite the seeming unfairness and protestations of the coaches. It has to be that way because of how things can happen in hockey and it takes the subjectivity out of the decision for the ref. In this case the whistle blew before it crossed the line but what makes it worse is that the play was dead before the whistle blew based on guidelines of when the play ends. Which means the play was officially dead inches if not feet before crossing the line. The officials inexperience is really disappointing. The Japan disallowed goal is another perfect example.
                          Last edited by backhand sauce; 02-12-2014, 04:44 PM.

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                          • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

                            Originally posted by Timothy A
                            I would have hoped Stone would have made in game changes to the plan to counter what the canucks were doing to their breakout.
                            Originally posted by pokechecker View Post
                            this is where the Canucks have a big advantage, former NHL coach should be able to do a better job of implementing and adapting a forecheck than a college coach
                            Do you think coaching was a big advantage here? Now if there was discrepancy in in-game adjustments, it would've been Canada making better 2nd intermission adjustments rather than the U.S. failing to react to earlier adjustments. Clearly Canada had an edge in the first period despite being outshot, and the U.S. was much better in the second period.

                            As far as advantages in coaching knowledge go, I would also hope that Katey has some advantage in knowledge specific to women's hockey and knowledge of her personnel. Overall though, I don't expect coaching to be a huge advantage for either side.

                            I hate to focus too much on two players, but I'd say the biggest difference is just that Agosta & Wickenheiser are better and more comfortable at this level than anyone the U.S. has.

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                            • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

                              Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
                              I'll also say that, as much as I agree the refs have let too much checking to go on, U.S. fans really shouldn't be complaining about it because Kendall Coyne should have missed today's game as she sat out a suspension for the elbow that laid out Lara Stalder.
                              You should have paid closer attention to the replay. Coyne moved her arm back to get around the Swiss player at the blueline. Coyne's stick was straight up in the air and her right hand was against her shoulder and the Swiss player went straight into Coyne's hand/shoulder. Remember, Coyne is 5' 1," and the Swiss player was bent over. There was no elbow thrown, no penalty missed. Two objects moving in opposite directions and the one leading with her head lost.

                              The most blatant missed call was 6' Hilary Knight being dumped when the D stepped into her as she cut to the top of the slot. If you step up and knock her down there is no way you can call it incidental.

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                              • Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

                                USA Today has a bit more on women's hockey's safe status: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-iihf/5419441/

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