2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

[unofan]

The main defense issue I've seen regarding cuts is that it retroactively reduces the pensions of retired vets, a reasonable concern.

So veteran pensions should be untouchable, but pensions for anyone else are just public workers being greedy? Is that the approach the GOP is taking?

In other words, where was that concern for City of Detroit pensioners?

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Guess at least some folks like seeing benefits cut to our veterans. Though he's on ignore, I'm sure unofan likes seeing retroactive cuts handed out to our veterans. Personally, I don't think it's fair to renig on pension deals for any workers, whether civilian, defense, or whatever. It's much fairer to make such changes apply to new workers, as then they know what the deal is when they decide to begin working for the government. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if the veterans take this to court and I don't know what the legal precedents are on this, but it seems like the vets would have a reasonable argument.

Though eventually it'll all have to be put on the table when Obama and his ilk eventually run this nation into fiscal ruin. One day the money will run out and then everybody's sacred cows will be in a world of hurt.

[jerphisch]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Guess at least some folks like seeing benefits cut to our veterans. Though he's on ignore, I'm sure unofan likes seeing retroactive cuts handed out to our veterans. Personally, I don't think it's fair to renig on pension deals for any workers, whether civilian, defense, or whatever. It's much fairer to make such changes apply to new workers, as then they know what the deal is when they decide to begin working for the government. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if the veterans take this to court and I don't know what the legal precedents are on this, but it seems like the vets would have a reasonable argument.

Though eventually it'll all have to be put on the table when Obama and his ilk eventually run this nation into fiscal ruin. One day the money will run out and then everybody's sacred cows will be in a world of hurt.

Every year that dirty bastard Obama just keeps posting a deficit lower than the last. I don't know how we can continue down this path...headed strait towards ruin.

[burd]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Guess at least some folks like seeing benefits cut to our veterans. Though he's on ignore, I'm sure unofan likes seeing retroactive cuts handed out to our veterans. Personally, I don't think it's fair to renig on pension deals for any workers, whether civilian, defense, or whatever. It's much fairer to make such changes apply to new workers, as then they know what the deal is when they decide to begin working for the government. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if the veterans take this to court and I don't know what the legal precedents are on this, but it seems like the vets would have a reasonable argument.

Though eventually it'll all have to be put on the table when Obama and his ilk eventually run this nation into fiscal ruin. One day the money will run out and then everybody's sacred cows will be in a world of hurt.

How soon we forget Bush's Emergency Economic Stabilization Act spending 700 billion to mitigate what was the worst economic crisis in three generations, hastily put together as he was walking out the door. Whatever you have to say about the speed of recovery under Obama, the economy and the public confidence in it was in a free-fall when Obama took over.

[walrus]

Every year that dirty bastard Obama just keeps posting a deficit lower than the last. I don't know how we can continue down this path...headed strait towards ruin.

Sequester

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

How soon we forget Bush's Emergency Economic Stabilization Act spending 700 billion to mitigate what was the worst economic crisis in three generations, hastily put together as he was walking out the door. Whatever you have to say about the speed of recovery under Obama, the economy and the public confidence in it was in a free-fall when Obama took over.

If you've been around here very long, you would have noticed that I have blasted Bush a lot for lack of fiscal restraint. It just ramped up a good bit more with Obama in office. But Bush failed badly on controlling federal spending also. So, yes, Bush was bad, but Obama is worse. Not that it matters big picture, as we're headed for financial ruin in this country and neither party has the guts/substance/character to do much, if anything, about it. The old rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic thing.

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Sequester

Which of course Obama takes credit for, except when it's bad and then he doesn't take credit for it.

Gotta say though, that was the first time in awhile anyone around here has tried to argue that Obama shows some sort of fiscal restraint. Even the libs around here shy away from that one for the most part.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

If you've been around here very long, you would have noticed that I have blasted Bush a lot for lack of fiscal restraint. It just ramped up a good bit more with Obama in office. But Bush failed badly on controlling federal spending also. So, yes, Bush was bad, but Obama is worse. Not that it matters big picture, as we're headed for financial ruin in this country and neither party has the guts/substance/character to do much, if anything, about it. The old rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic thing.

Worse?????

Medicare Prescription D - Unpaid for.
NCLB- Unpaid for.
Two Wars - Unpaid for.

Obama isn't even close.

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

If you've been around here very long, you would have noticed that I have blasted Bush a lot for lack of fiscal restraint. It just ramped up a good bit more with Obama in office. But Bush failed badly on controlling federal spending also. So, yes, Bush was bad, but Obama is worse. Not that it matters big picture, as we're headed for financial ruin in this country and neither party has the guts/substance/character to do much, if anything, about it. The old rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic thing.

I call BS Bob. You were nowhere to be found criticizing Bush until his poll numbers went south and he was about to lose the Congress. Only then did you and your ilk suddenly become concerned about a 1T tax giveaway to campaign contributors and a 1T unfunded and needless Iraq war, both of which were enacted years earlier. You can tell yourself differently if it lets you get some sleep at night, but nobody, and I mean nobody, is buying it.

Next, saying Obama is worse than Bush on spending is stark raving stupid. Bush left Obama with an over 1T dollar deficit, even though he inherited a surplus 8 years earlier. This would be the equivalent of Obama running a 2T a year deficit in 2016. Instead, he's cut the annual deficit in half.

[walrus]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Worse?????

Medicare Prescription D - Unpaid for.
NCLB- Unpaid for.
Two Wars - Unpaid for.

Obama isn't even close.

Aren't the states left with paying for NCLB? Afghanistan, didn't Obama keep us there until 2024? when he promised to be out in 2014? Arguing about who is worse between Bush and Obama is losing battle for either side. neither one of them would or could reign in spending, might lose votes, more importantly might might **** off campaign donors

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Arguing about who is worse between Bush and Obama is losing battle for either side.

It's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhea.

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Aren't the states left with paying for NCLB? Afghanistan, didn't Obama keep us there until 2024? when he promised to be out in 2014? Arguing about who is worse between Bush and Obama is losing battle for either side. neither one of them would or could reign in spending, might lose votes, more importantly might might **** off campaign donors

Okay walrus, you're either John King or Wolf Blitzer, so fess up! With this kind of false equivalency, you will soon be offered a primetime slot on CNN.

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Aren't the states left with paying for NCLB? Afghanistan, didn't Obama keep us there until 2024? when he promised to be out in 2014? Arguing about who is worse between Bush and Obama is losing battle for either side. neither one of them would or could reign in spending, might lose votes, more importantly might might **** off campaign donors

That remains to be seen.

We know W's legacy and where the country was when he left office. Obama's spending was high...but the ends seems to be justifying the means as the country's businesses are doing well right now. One could make the point about stubborn unemployment, but that is directly caused by cheap, quality labor overseas. If Obama can strengthen the economy at all while continuing to reduce the deficit, he will be a very good president. Bush still remains in the bottom quartile in all four rankings of presidents since he left office.

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Its funny how people won't call out bad Presidents when they see them if they align with their own ideological preferences. Few cons will admit, even to this day, that Iraq was a mistake. All they will do is bleat something about how Dems voted for it too, when in reality everybody was duped by made up intelligence reports.

So, its okay from my perspective to admit Jimmy Carter was a bad President. Doesn't make him a bad guy, but he was as ineffectual as they come. Its okay to admit Nixon was thoroughly corrupt and paranoid to an extent never seen before or since in the White House and should have served time in prison.

Along those lines, Bush II was the most destructive President possibly of all time. Nobody took a country from the heights of prosperity and drove it down to the depths of depression as quickly and deeply as he did. Nobody launched any of the country's previous wars on such a total fabrication. I'm sorry if the walruses of the world are stuck with the fact they voted for him, but you made your bed now you get to sleep in it.

[jerphisch]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

So, yes, Bush was bad, but Obama is worse.

Serious question....how so? Please give some examples with actual figures.