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USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

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  • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

    Okay fine, no more poll. But would there be interest in a tourney bracket pool via Paypal?
    Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
    Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
    Twitter: @Salzano14


    Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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    • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

      Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
      Yeah, for a withdrawal, so you can pay your bookie

      Admit it TTT, would you not not love for BU to win over Minny and then Wisco so BC can have another crack at them ?

      Comment


      • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

        Originally posted by OnMAA View Post
        Admit it TTT, would you not not love for BU to win over Minny and then Wisco so BC can have another crack at them ?
        I honestly do not know the answer to this lol

        But whether I want them to win or not, it is extraordinarily unlikely that they do.
        Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
        Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
        Twitter: @Salzano14


        Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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        • Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
          Okay fine, no more poll. But would there be interest in a tourney bracket pool via Paypal?
          I think that we could do a final poll after the tournament. That provides some insight as to how fans think teams compare once all of the hockey is done for the season.
          "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
          And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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          • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

            Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
            I honestly do not know the answer to this lol
            If you're hoping for a rematch with BU, that's puts them uncomfortably close to having more national championships than you've got, doesn't it?

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            • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

              Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
              If you're hoping for a rematch with BU, that's puts them uncomfortably close to having more national championships than you've got, doesn't it?
              I see it as Boston neighborly help to get BC that most elusive title. Do it in Memory of Boston Strong, United they stand, to commemorate those that suffered on Patriots day last year.

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              • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

                Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
                If you're hoping for a rematch with BU, that's puts them uncomfortably close to having more national championships than you've got, doesn't it?
                I am absolutely NAHT hoping for a rematch with BU for that very reason. I am hoping for the easiest path to the title.

                It has nothing to do with 'not wanting to see my team prove itself' like ARM suggested in another thread. I want my team to win the title. They have a better chance of winning the title by playing the lowest ranked teams possible. Should I hope the BC men don't get the #1 overall seed to they can play the AHA champ instead of someone like Michigan? No, eff that. If BC could play Sacred Heart, Holy Cross, Maine, and Brown for the title it wouldn't cheapen it for me in the slightest.

                Either in men's hockey where my team has been dominant or women's hockey where they have been the underdog. Doesn't matter.
                Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                Twitter: @Salzano14


                Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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                • Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                  I want my team to win the title. They have a better chance of winning the title by playing the lowest ranked teams possible.
                  It might work that way a bit in men's hockey. In women's, it doesn't seem to matter. The best team seems to win and has to beat quality teams to do so. The quarter opponent might be a bit weaker some years, but after that all the opponents tend to be about the same in terms of potential. Either your team is good enough to win three straight or it isn't. The hockey gods don't do it for you.
                  "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                  And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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                  • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

                    Originally posted by ARM View Post
                    It might work that way a bit in men's hockey. In women's, it doesn't seem to matter.
                    No, I assure you, if you play opponents that you statistically have a better chance of beating, then you will statistically have a better chance to beat those teams. It's freaking axiomatic.

                    The hockey gods don't do it for you.
                    I never said they did. But math and logic and reason say that if you play a worse team you will be more likely to win that game.

                    The quarter opponent might be a bit weaker some years, but after that all the opponents tend to be about the same in terms of potential
                    You *KNOW* that isn't true. Last year BC had to play Minnesota in the semifinals. BU had to play, what, Cornell?, who was not in the same stratosphere as Minnesota, because no one was in the same stratosphere as Minnesota.

                    So you're telling me that if BC didn't get a bounce in overtime at Ridder, that BU wouldn't have a had a mathematically improved chance to win the title? Coming DIRECTLY from an improved draw because they wouldn't have had to play Minnesota?

                    Put another way -- this year, BU has a 100% chance of having to defeat Minnesota to win the title. According to KRACH, BC has an 81% chance of having to defeat Minnesota to win the title. That doesn't give BC a better chance to win because of an improved draw?
                    Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                    Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                    Twitter: @Salzano14


                    Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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                    • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

                      Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                      If BC could play Sacred Heart, Holy Cross, Maine, and Brown for the title it wouldn't cheapen it for me in the slightest.
                      I may as well ask before someone else does...what are your going rates?

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                      • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

                        Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
                        I may as well ask before someone else does...what are your going rates?
                        American or Canadian?
                        Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                        Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                        Twitter: @Salzano14


                        Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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                        • Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                          Last year BC had to play Minnesota in the semifinals. BU had to play, what, Cornell?
                          Meryhurst, not Cornell, but it doesn't matter. You're looking at it from the standpoint of someone who doesn't think his team is the best team and is trying to figure out a way that they can be the champion anyway. I have yet to see it work that way. I'm looking at it from the standpoint of knowing what team ultimately wins and going back and looking at the path it took there. The team that wins has to go through decent teams; they don't win because they drew Sacred Heart and Holy Cross for opponents. Last year, we had to beat UND, BC, and BU. Could the path have been tougher? Maybe Cornell would have proved harder than BU, but I doubt it, because the Big Red weren't playing their best hockey in the postseason.

                          If you're good enough, you find a way through the field. If you're not, an easier draw such as what BU wound up with last year, can't make you the champ. I understand the math. I also think that there is more at work here than just stats.
                          "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                          And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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                          • Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                            No, I assure you, if you play opponents that you statistically have a better chance of beating, then you will statistically have a better chance to beat those teams. It's freaking axiomatic.

                            I never said they did. But math and logic and reason say that if you play a worse team you will be more likely to win that game.

                            You *KNOW* that isn't true. Last year BC had to play Minnesota in the semifinals. BU had to play, what, Cornell?, who was not in the same stratosphere as Minnesota, because no one was in the same stratosphere as Minnesota.

                            So you're telling me that if BC didn't get a bounce in overtime at Ridder, that BU wouldn't have a had a mathematically improved chance to win the title? Coming DIRECTLY from an improved draw because they wouldn't have had to play Minnesota?

                            Put another way -- this year, BU has a 100% chance of having to defeat Minnesota to win the title. According to KRACH, BC has an 81% chance of having to defeat Minnesota to win the title. That doesn't give BC a better chance to win because of an improved draw?
                            Over the last couple of years... Idk about other teams, but Clarkson in particular tends to actually have a real issue with playing against the "easier" teams. They have a tendency to play to the level of the team they are playing against, so they will do well against good teams and then falter against the lesser teams. They've certainly done a better job of fixing that this year compared to last, but the ties against Brown at the beginning of the season and against Quinnipiac and Princenton at the end of the season almost killed the Regular season title that was their's to lose.

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                            • Re: USCHO Women's Hockey Posters Poll

                              Originally posted by ARM View Post
                              You're looking at it from the standpoint of someone who doesn't think his team is the best team and is trying to figure out a way that they can be the champion anyway.
                              No, I'm looking at it from the standpoint of "they don't crown the best team the champion, they crown the winner of three single elimination games the champion."

                              I know Minnesota is the best team, but that doesn't make them the champion. I want my team to win the championship, and they have an improved chance of doing so if they do not have to play Minnesota.

                              In men's hockey, it's the same thing but from a different perspective. I do indeed think my team is the best team. But given that single elimination tournaments are fleeting and random, I want to minimize that random effect by having them play teams where random chance plays less of a factor. That would mean weaker teams.

                              Just because a lower seed winning the women's NCAA tournament hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't. And I'm sure you would agree. But any rational person would also agree that there is a better chance of that happening with a favorable draw.

                              And it has nothing to do with the fact that my team is weaker, because the same thing is true in men's hockey. If I think my team is the best, then I want as little random chance to factor into the result as possible.

                              I'm looking at it from the standpoint of knowing what team ultimately wins and going back and looking at the path it took there...If you're not [good enough], an easier draw such as what BU wound up with last year, can't make you the champ.
                              That's the problem. You're looking at it from a perspective of "BU could not possibly have been the champion last year because they did not win the championship." Well, no kidding. But it doesn't work that way. BU *could* have won the championship. I'm sure you would acknowledge this.

                              But what you're telling me here is that if BU had won the title game over BC last year, that you wouldn't acknowledge the fact that they didn't have to play against Minnesota was a factor in that championship?

                              Originally posted by ARM View Post
                              I understand the math. I also think that there is more at work here than just stats.
                              God, this complaint against sports statistics just drives me nuts.

                              People who like stats don't think that stats play the games. Stats can only be used as a predictor for those games. And just because the expected outcome doesn't occur doesn't mean that the stat was wrong. If (who the hell plays for the Twins these days?) Joe Mauer comes up to bat with a .400 on base percentage and hits a single, it doesn't mean his OBP wasn't a good predictor because he statistically was more likely to not reach base.
                              Last edited by TonyTheTiger20; 03-11-2014, 02:30 PM.
                              Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                              Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                              Twitter: @Salzano14


                              Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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                              • Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                                I want my team to win the championship, and they have an improved chance of doing so if they do not have to play Minnesota.
                                If they don't play Minnesota, they're going to play someone else good enough to reach that championship. They aren't going to face some team that came up with a miracle game out of nowhere and then just collapsed. I have yet to see such a season in the NCAA era. You may want a cupcake championship; I can assure you that your team does not. Your team wants to compete, because that's why they invest all the blood, sweat and tears. They could care less about the hardware if it doesn't symbolize deeper meaning. They want to be the best, not the luckiest.

                                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                                But any rational person would also agree that there is a better chance of that happening with a favorable draw.
                                Rational? Where in the heck do you think you are? We're on the USCHO forum, for crying out loud, and you expect rational???

                                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                                That's the problem. You're looking at it from a perspective of "BU could not possibly have been the champion last year because they did not win the championship." Well, no kidding. But it doesn't work that way. BU *could* have won the championship. I'm sure you would acknowledge this.
                                No. There's a 100 percent chance that BU did not win the championship. That's all I have to prove, because I'm starting with the team that won, and working backward. You're the one wanting to play "what if" games that defy the math, and then you want me to conclude something based on an event that did not happen. So no, I'm not going there.

                                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                                God, this complaint against sports statistics just drives me nuts.
                                What complaint? I'm not making any complaint. I'm just saying that Yale won last year not because they got some magical break through the brackets, but because they played the best hockey in the tournament. I think even when you think it is all about shortcuts, you still have to go out there and beat a good team that has the same goals and ambitions that you do. Math is great, but it is based upon having data. In a three game tournament, there isn't much data, so the most important math is the addition that takes place on the scoreboard. I believe in math, I believe in science, and I believe that neither can explain everything, because they are limited by our own lack of understanding. I know enough to realize that there is even more that I don't begin to fathom.

                                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                                (who the hell plays for the Twins these days?)
                                who cares? Neither of us is going to change the other's view one iota based on any baseball analogy.

                                Been fun debating -- I'd best do what I'm supposed to be doing.
                                "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                                And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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