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Thread: Politicians We Admire

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    Politicians We Admire

    I understand the theory of negative campaigning. The idea is not to get votes for oneself, the concept is to depress turnout for the other candidate....to diminish the "other side's" enthusiasm to such an extent that they stay home and don't even bother voting at all.

    While it may "work," it also has some extremely negative side effects:

    > it diminishes the overall "standing" of all politicians.
    -- At one time, there was a concept of "public service." Someone would do well in life, and want to "give back" to the community or to society at large
    -- young idealistic people would be attracted to the idea of doing good for others
    -- now, these same people are deterred from even seeking office in the first place, which means
    -- we now have a disproportionate number of people seeking office who lack shame and are not constrained as much by social mores as the rest of us.


    > it is unhealthy for the general public.
    -- speaking personally, I find some ugly passions engaged in myself that I don't always handle as graciously as I would like.
    -- there is something voyeuristic in human nature that enjoys a good train wreck...I wish it weren't so, yet there you have it
    -- it leads to a greater sense of frustration that government is unresponsive to the people's needs
    -- it legitimizes behavior that once was shameful



    Even so, there are still some politicians who earn our admiration; perhaps not overall, but at least for certain things they say or do.

    We have so much acrimony sometimes in other threads, I ask that we set that aside here. Sort of like pickup hockey: while out on the ice, we might get some good body slams into each other and rough each other up, but once the game is over, we can all go into the tavern together and share some drinks and food in a congenial manner.

    I ask that when we respond to each other, we refrain from "how can you possibly admire that jerk; he was despicable."
    -- Well, perhaps that "jerk" did do some despicable things, he may also have done some admirable things. Few politicians are all good or all awful.

    I ask that, when we post about those we do admire, we mention specific achievements or accomplishments that were admirable, or lay out the time period during which he was admirable; there is less potential for contention if we are talking about events and time periods that we can all agree did occur instead of talking about a personality or what he supposedly "represented."




    I'll give an example a bit later of a politician who did many admirable things, and given my reputation I'm sure many will be surprised by who I mention first and why.....

    Thanks, all!
    Last edited by FreshFish; 05-18-2012 at 08:12 AM.
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Talk about the thinnest book in the library.
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    May 14th, 2011, 11:00 PM ET: 2147483647

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I'm not happy about it either, but Flag is correct (cue the Twilight Zone music!).
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    Ahh crap I agree exactly with what FlagDude said.
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    Talk about the thinnest book in the library.
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    It's more than true it actually happened
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    ******** class="restrain" title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IoACIIz33II?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0">
    Juuuuust coming in here to do the same...
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Kriesel!
    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

    RIP - Kirby

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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Why the **** would I admire a politician? The only ones not worthy of heaps of scorn are usually guys that actually did useful work before taking office and tend to quit after a handful of years because they've scrubbed most of their skin off trying to feel clean.
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    Talk about the thinnest book in the library.
    Ten blank pages, bound in black leather.

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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    Why the **** would I admire a politician? The only ones not worthy of heaps of scorn are usually guys that actually did useful work before taking office and tend to quit after a handful of years because they've scrubbed most of their skin off trying to feel clean.
    Kriesel!
    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

    RIP - Kirby

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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    A complex and flawed man who also had some admirable accomplishments...William Jefferson Clinton.


    Bill Clinton's Presidency did not have a very auspicious beginning. He won 43% of the popular vote in 1992, and had a disastrous start to his Presidency when right off the bat he proposed a comprehensive government-centric health care plan that was very unpopular with the general public. In part because of the unpopularity of his healthcare proposal, in part because of their "Contract with America," the Republicans won a majority in the House of Representatives and were openly hostile toward Clinton.

    Clinton then reinvented himself and embarked on perhaps one of the greatest four-year runs of any US President.
    > He negotiated and signed a bipartisan welfare reform that transformed a broken failed system into one that worked better than anyone at the time imagined *
    > He negotiated and delivered budgets that were approved on time and led to a series of annual government budget surpluses *
    > He managed the ratification of the North American Free Trade Agreement despite vocal union opposition. The implementation of this agreement was a substantial contributing factor to the healthy economy during his Presidency, and the increase in traffic of goods shipped both ways actually benefited the members of the unions that opposed NAFTA as well
    > He played a significant role in motivating NATO to act to end the genocide in Serbia

    This was an admirable and masterful string of achievements....some would say "despite" Congress, others would say "because of" Congress, while to me it's an example of making the best of a bad hand..... and the nation generally enjoyed prosperous times as well.


    Of course, we all know what came to light in 1998, and that incident, and the subsequent evasions, and the pattern of lifelong behavior it suggested, were not at all admirable.

    A complex and flawed man who had some admirable accomplishments...William Jefferson Clinton.




    * it is hard today to place the magnitude of this accomplishment in proper perspective....but if you view it from the context of its time, it was truly extraordinary. Welfare in the early 1990s had become a disaster. It has hemorrhaging money; the population of people on welfare kept growing geometrically; people on welfare hated its terms and conditions; people who administered it hated its rules and requirements; taxpayers hated seeing their money making a situation worse instead of better.

    However, there was a deeply entrenched constitutency in favor of continuing welfare as it was then administered, and this constituency was at the core of the Democratic party. They argued fiercely against the reforms; predicting all sorts of dire and doomful consequences. It took real courage and considerable political skill both to negotiate a bill that preserved as much as possible of the Democratic agenda while also including as much as acceptable of the Republican agenda to secure passage through Congress.

    When the bill was finally implemented, none of the dire consequences materialized. The results were even better than had been projected by the bill's proponents. Successful welfare reform was a huge contributing factor to the budget surpluses that followed.

    We really need to take the lesson of welfare reform to heart now. An "untouchable" entitlement was repaired in an effective manner because both sides were committed to an outcome that would be best overall for everyone. The challenge was not "whether" to do something but "how" to get it done.

    Yes, I find this admirable, especially when viewed from where we are today.
    Last edited by FreshFish; 05-18-2012 at 09:30 AM.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

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    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    FDR, Lincoln for the obvious reasons, and Scott Walker solely for telling the Unions to go jump off a cliff.
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    FDR, Lincoln for the obvious reasons, and Scott Walker solely for telling the Unions to go jump off a cliff.
    FDR was a fascist dictator that started a good majority of the mess this country is in right now.
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    May 14th, 2011, 11:00 PM ET: 2147483647

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I'm not happy about it either, but Flag is correct (cue the Twilight Zone music!).
    Quote Originally Posted by French Rage View Post
    Ahh crap I agree exactly with what FlagDude said.
    Quote Originally Posted by jericho on rpitv's chat
    I never thought I would say this, but you are right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    And yet, even if Flaggy is complete tinfoil hat, every day it looks closer and closer to the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    So flaggy: you win.

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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    FDR was a fascist dictator that started a good majority of the mess this country is in right now.
    Not that I disagree, but I'm guessing that this comment will go over like a fart in church when the libs get in here.
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Former Montgomery County (MD) Executive Doug Duncan. Probably the only Democrat in Maryland that I would (and did) pull the lever for.

    If I liked him, it is probably why he did not succeed in the run for Statewide office.
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    FDR was a fascist dictator that started a good majority of the mess this country is in right now.
    Setting that aside, FDR also did two admirable things in the run-up to WWII.

    He saw early on that Hitler would never stop his aggression voluntarily and started to prepare us and the Allies for that inevitability well ahead of time. When the time came, we were already well along with our preparations. This took courage leadership and considerable political skill.

    Despite his disastrous relationships with business during the 1930s, when it came time to mobilize for war, he turned to a voluntary consortium of private business. Given his track record up to that date, his conversion on this crucial point was remarkable. It went against his every instinct for centralized command and control to allow private business to supply the war effort, yet he realized he needed as much good will and voluntary sacrifice as he could muster to win the war at home. For him to trust others to deliver, people whom he had mercilessly demonized, took wisdom and humility and setting aside his ego for the good of the country.

    The details of his conversion and how successfully it turned out were described several weeks ago in a WSJ article that I'll try to find and link to later.



    PS Dude, really petty response. You may disagree with FDR's policies, but unsubstantiated name-calling runs counter to the spirit of this thread. While we chuckle at Thumper, in this case, "if you can't say something nice, please remain silent" is apropos.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    Setting that aside, FDR also did two admirable things in the run-up to WWII.

    He saw early on that Hitler would never stop his aggression voluntarily and started to prepare us and the Allies for that inevitability well ahead of time. When the time came, we were already well along with our preparations. This took courage leadership and considerable political skill.

    Despite his disastrous relationships with business during the 1930s, when it came time to mobilize for war, he turned to a voluntary consortium of private business. Given his track record up to that date, his conversion on this crucial point was remarkable. It went against his every instinct for centralized command and control to allow private business to supply the war effort, yet he realized he needed as much good will and voluntary sacrifice as he could muster to win the war at home. For him to trust others to deliver, people whom he had mercilessly demonized, took wisdom and humility and setting aside his ego for the good of the country.

    The details of his conversion and how successfully it turned out were described several weeks ago in a WSJ article that I'll try to find and link to later.



    PS Dude, really petty response. You may disagree with FDR's policies, but unsubstantiated name-calling runs counter to the spirit of this thread. While we chuckle at Thumper, in this case, "if you can't say something nice, please remain silent" is apropos.
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    Unsubstantiated, eh? How about his life term? Economic ideas guaranteed to kill any growth? Trying to get more Supreme Court justice slots so that he could put non-judges in there that would allow each and every policy under any circumstance, regardless of what the Constitution says? Oh wait, we're seeing it happen again...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I'm not happy about it either, but Flag is correct (cue the Twilight Zone music!).
    Quote Originally Posted by French Rage View Post
    Ahh crap I agree exactly with what FlagDude said.
    Quote Originally Posted by jericho on rpitv's chat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    And yet, even if Flaggy is complete tinfoil hat, every day it looks closer and closer to the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    So flaggy: you win.

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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    And nobody stacks up to Lincoln.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    FDR was a fascist dictator that started a good majority of the mess this country is in right now.
    Ah...no.

    One of my favorite wiki pages is the ranking of US presidents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori..._United_States

    Here's the rankings in order:

    3 Washington, George !George Washington
    12 Adams, John !John Adams
    4 Jefferson, Thomas !Thomas Jefferson
    13 Madison, James !James Madison
    14 Monroe, James !James Monroe
    18 Adams, John Q !John Quincy Adams
    08 Jackson, Andrew !Andrew Jackson
    24 Van Buren, Martin !Martin Van Buren
    38 Harrison, William Henry !William Henry Harrison
    36 Tyler, John !John Tyler
    10 Polk, James K !James K. Polk
    35 Taylor, Zachary !Zachary Taylor
    38 Fillmore, Millard !Millard Fillmore
    40 Pierce, Franklin !Franklin Pierce
    42 Buchanan, James !James Buchanan
    1 Lincoln, Abraham !Abraham Lincoln
    41 Johnson, Andrew !Andrew Johnson
    37 Grant, Ulysses S !Ulysses S. Grant
    25 Hayes, Rutherford B !Rutherford B. Hayes
    29 Garfield, James A !James A. Garfield
    28 Arthur, Chester A !Chester A. Arthur
    19 Cleveland, Grover !Grover Cleveland
    33 Harrison, Benjamin !Benjamin Harrison
    20 McKinley, William !William McKinley
    5 Roosevelt, Theodore !Theodore Roosevelt
    22 Taft, William Howard !William Howard Taft
    6 Wilson, Woodrow !Woodrow Wilson
    43 Harding, Warren G !Warren G. Harding
    31 Coolidge, Calvin !Calvin Coolidge
    29 Hoover, Herbert !Herbert Hoover
    2 Roosevelt, Frankin D !Franklin D. Roosevelt
    7 Truman, Harry S !Harry S. Truman
    8 Eisenhower, Dwight D !Dwight D. Eisenhower
    11 Kennedy, John F !John F. Kennedy
    14 Johnson, Lyndon B !Lyndon B. Johnson
    32 Nixon, Richard !Richard Nixon
    26 Ford, Gerald R !Gerald Ford
    27 Carter, Jimmy !Jimmy Carter
    17 Reagan, Ronald !Ronald Reagan
    22 Bush, George H W !George H. W. Bush
    20 Clinton, Bill !Bill Clinton
    34 Bush, George W !George W. Bush
    14 Obama, Barack !Barack Obama (midway with just two polls)
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    And nobody stacks up to Lincoln.
    Yeah, no one stacks up to someone that institutes mandatory military service for an unnecessary war, begins taxing citizens based upon their income, and practically jails states that wish to leave the country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I'm not happy about it either, but Flag is correct (cue the Twilight Zone music!).
    Quote Originally Posted by French Rage View Post
    Ahh crap I agree exactly with what FlagDude said.
    Quote Originally Posted by jericho on rpitv's chat
    I never thought I would say this, but you are right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    And yet, even if Flaggy is complete tinfoil hat, every day it looks closer and closer to the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    So flaggy: you win.

  18. #18
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Cory Booker (mayor of Newark, NJ) saved a woman from a burning building. Whatever you think of his policy stances, that's pretty awesome.
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    FDR was a fascist dictator that started a good majority of the mess this country is in right now.
    Couldn't agree with you more. He's the root of all evil.
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    Re: Politicians We Admire

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    Yeah, no one stacks up to someone that institutes mandatory military service for an unnecessary war, begins taxing citizens based upon their income, and practically jails states that wish to leave the country.
    *******http://10-64.com/rd/media/graphics/troll_obvious.jpg********
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