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Thread: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

  1. #101
    Mr. Sanctimonious Gurtholfin's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Here's another thread that Dubbie-Wubbie has railroaded. All under the guise of having "honest questions" that he's "really interested in the responses to."

    The thing is that theses honest questions and observations ALWAYS have the same goal in mind - to prop up Minnesota as the bestest college hockey program of all time. It's not even thinly veiled. Every thread he's in - EVERY. It's obvious and transparent and that is the reason that people call him on it.

    As Dirty said, without fail Dubbie will play the victim at that point. "What? That's not what i was saying? I just had an honest question."

    Thank God he's not in the cafe or we'd have to hear ad nauseum how the Replacements were the best rock band ever or how Minnesota is the best place to take a vacation etc, etc, etc.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    Here's another thread that Dubbie-Wubbie has railroaded. All under the guise of having "honest questions" that he's "really interested in the responses to."

    The thing is that theses honest questions and observations ALWAYS have the same goal in mind - to prop up Minnesota as the bestest college hockey program of all time. It's not even thinly veiled. Every thread he's in - EVERY. It's obvious and transparent and that is the reason that people call him on it.

    As Dirty said, without fail Dubbie will play the victim at that point. "What? That's not what i was saying? I just had an honest question."

    Thank God he's not in the cafe or we'd have to hear ad nauseum how the Replacements were the best rock band ever or how Minnesota is the best place to take a vacation etc, etc, etc.
    Hey, I never said Minnesota was the best program in college hockey in this thread. You just did.

    As for this thread, HumRsky I am sorry for attracting unwanted attention to this thread. My questions have been answered, so I will move on and hopefully the unwanted attention will follow.
    Last edited by JDUBBS1280; 04-15-2012 at 01:02 PM.

  3. #103
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
    As for this formula and this measurement, I think it is solid, and does a good job in looking at a team's on-ice accomplishments during the era.
    It's not bad, but could be improved by awarding a point or two for national championships at the D-III and D-II levels. Surely those are worth at least as much as a D-I minor conference championship?


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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
    Hey, I never said Minnesota was the best program in college hockey in this thread. You just did.

    As for this thread, HumRsky I am sorry for attracting unwanted attention to this thread. My questions have been answered, so I will move on and hopefully the unwanted attention will follow.
    I would be hypocritical to be mad about it, I also got sucked in and participated in getting this thread off track. Apology accepted though

    As for lower division titles, I don't begrudge any team for celebrating and being proud of those accomplishments, but I feel it's appropriate to only consider D1 accomplishments when comparing D1 programs.

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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
    I think my questions were perfectly acceptable and on topic.
    No. No they weren't. Both FS23's thread and this one were quite clear in what they were doing. Your problem has always been that they do it at all. That has no business here.
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    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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  6. #106
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by HumRsky View Post
    As for lower division titles, I don't begrudge any team for celebrating and being proud of those accomplishments, but I feel it's appropriate to only consider D1 accomplishments when comparing D1 programs.
    I'm not surprised you feel that way, but I think it's a little short-sighted.


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  7. #107
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Wow. What a freaking gong show. I was going to do a list of teams from 1984 (the eastern split and advent of 4 major conferences) but after browsing through this "discussion" I realize there's no point. Saved me a lot of trouble as I couldn't track down results of the CCHA Tournament that long ago.

  8. #108
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Wow. What a freaking gong show. I was going to do a list of teams from 1984 (the eastern split and advent of 4 major conferences) but after browsing through this "discussion" I realize there's no point. Saved me a lot of trouble as I couldn't track down results of the CCHA Tournament that long ago.
    We got off track a little, and I'm not innocent in that, but when the discussion has been on-topic it has been productive and enjoyable (to me).
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  9. #109
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    I will repost, so people don't have to look all the way back:
    This is a ranking I put together of every current D1 hockey team based only on what they have accomplished; winning %, NCAA win % and other metrics were not considered. This is not intended to be better than FS23's in any way. This represents about 4-5 hours of research and math, not years and I do believe that the metrics FS23 used are very valid for comparing programs, this is just another way of ranking the teams.

    The scoring system I used is as follows:
    National Title (NT) - 10pts
    Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
    Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
    Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
    Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
    NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
    Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
    Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
    NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

    Further explanation:
    Minor Conference Titles are designated with a lowercase "m," so if a team has one minor conference title it would be designated 1m in that column. Similarly, for the seasons in which there were two WCHA playoff "winners" I gave those teams half credit, or 2 points and those titles are designated with a lowercase "h," so if a team was a playoff co-winner 7 times, it will be designated 7h in that column. I gave full credit to all regular season champions, even co-Champions, because I didn't feel like going back and sorting through all that.
    The Tri-State League and the Ivy League are considered major conference champions from 1948-49 until the formation of the ECAC in 1961-62. This gave teams in those league perhaps an unfair advantage, Harvard and St. Lawrence were helped particularly by this inclusion and people will probably bemoan how high they are ranked. The champions of those leagues after the formation of the ECAC were not included. I considered the first season of the Midwest Collegiate Hockey League in 1951-52 as the first season of the WCHA. I considered all CCHA championships as major although a strong argument could be made that it was not a major conference until the late '70s. The minor conference I used are MAAC/Atlantic Hockey, College Hockey America, and the Great West.

    Note that points are cumulative. For example, another way of looking at the points is that a National Title is worth 25 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 4 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance, 1 National Title) and a runner up is worth 14 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 3 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance) and so on... People will probably also gripe that, particularly in the minor conferences, the playoff title should be worth more because of the auto-bid, but don't forget the auto-bid means an NCAA appearance and an automatic 2 additional points that are not guaranteed to the Regular Season Champion.

    I will list all of the numbers and total points, so if you really don't like my point system, come up with your own and plug it into the numbers given.
    The rankings will be in the next post...discuss.
    SCSU Hockey: 2001 WCHA Playoff Champions, 2013 WCHA Champions & Frozen Four, 2014 NCHC Champions
    UMD Women: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010
    Gopher Football: 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
    Johnnie Football: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003
    UMD Football: 2008, 2010
    UMD Men: 2011

  10. #110
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    *******http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579021_10101901393189740_13966976_76945111_1152170 546_n.jpg********

    And for Comparison's Sake, here is FS23's rankings:

    1. Michigan - 492.1054 points
    2. North Dakota - 439.9358 points
    3. Minnesota - 411.0563 points
    4. Denver - 353.8417 points
    5. Boston College 349.1316 points
    6. Boston University 345.4844 points
    7. Wisconsin - 340.5347 points
    8. Michigan State - 234.6119 points
    9. Maine - 170.4416 points
    10. Michigan Tech - 161.3680 points
    11. Cornell - 155.2406 points
    12. LSSU - 154.1266 points
    13. Colorado College - 148.9003 points
    14. Clarkson - 123.7410 points
    15. Harvard - 119.2895 points
    16. Minnesota Duluth - 110.5424 points
    17. RPI - 98.5607 points
    18. Northern Michigan - 80.9381 points
    19. New Hampshire - 79.7827 points
    20. Bowling Green - 79.5213 points
    21. St. Lawrence - 64.4836 points
    22. Miami - 43.0583 points
    23. Providence - 37.8025 points
    24. Notre Dame - 37.2961 points
    25. Dartmouth 35.3232 points
    26. Yale - 33.6690 points
    27. Colgate - 28.9543 points
    28. Ferris State - 27.3798 points
    29. Northeastern - 25.0440 points
    30. Brown - 18.5029 points
    31. Ohio State - 17.3244 points
    32. Vermont - 15.8458 points
    33. SCSU - 13.8159 points
    34. Bemidji State - 12.3413 points
    35. Union - 11.6379 points
    36. RIT - 9.5637 points
    37. Lowell - 8.5005 points
    38. Western Michigan - 7.2926 points
    39. Niagara - 6.7155 points
    40. Air Force - 6.0956 points
    41. Princeton - 5.4220 points
    42. Anchorage - 5.3976 points
    43. Holy Cross - 4.9548 points
    44. Quinnipiac - 4.1548 points
    45. Merrimack - 4.1040 points
    46. Omaha -3.7569 points
    47. Mercyhurst - 3.6398 points
    48. Alaska - 3.1866 points
    49. Massachusetts - 3.1275 points
    50. Mankato - 2.6048 points
    51. Alabama Huntsville - 2.2262 points
    52. Army - 1.3795 points
    53. UConn - 0.2446 points
    54. Sacred Heart - 0.1570 points
    55. Canisius - 0.0279 points
    56. Robert Morris - 0.0267 points
    57. Bentley - 0.0255 points
    58. American International - 0.0079 points
    59. Penn State - 0.0000 points
    SCSU Hockey: 2001 WCHA Playoff Champions, 2013 WCHA Champions & Frozen Four, 2014 NCHC Champions
    UMD Women: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010
    Gopher Football: 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
    Johnnie Football: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003
    UMD Football: 2008, 2010
    UMD Men: 2011

  11. #111
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    I find it interesting how closely the two formulas ranked the teams. Most teams only move a spot or two one way or the other. One difference is that it will take PSU at least a season to get out of the tie for the cellar in yours, whereas in FSU's they could theoretically get out of the cellar with their first DI game.

    Glad to see this back on track. I would have thought it horribly obvious that "greatest" is subjective. And that the components that would go into any "greatest" formula are themselves subjective. Thereby making it impossible to not only determine the "greatest," but to come up with the single formula that would definitively name the "greatest". Apparently not everybody knows Captain Obvious.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleRay View Post
    I find it interesting how closely the two formulas ranked the teams. Most teams only move a spot or two one way or the other. One difference is that it will take PSU at least a season to get out of the tie for the cellar in yours, whereas in FSU's they could theoretically get out of the cellar with their first DI game.

    Glad to see this back on track. I would have thought it horribly obvious that "greatest" is subjective. And that the components that would go into any "greatest" formula are themselves subjective. Thereby making it impossible to not only determine the "greatest," but to come up with the single formula that would definitively name the "greatest". Apparently not everybody knows Captain Obvious.
    We can pick the topic back up if you want to, or we can just give it a rest?

  13. #113
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Championship season is upon us, Quinnipiac and Niagara have already locked up regular season titles and I thought I'd dig this up to see where teams stand and where they might end up by the end of the season. I've already added the aforementioned titles that have been earned so far this year, and also added an NCAA appearance to Lake Superior State's total that I had erroneously left out last year.
    The scoring system I used is as follows:
    National Title (NT) - 10pts
    Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
    Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
    Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
    Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
    NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
    Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
    Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
    NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

    For a full explanation, go to the first post in the thread.
    *******http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6563_10102880898563120_124616523_n.jpg********
    SCSU Hockey: 2001 WCHA Playoff Champions, 2013 WCHA Champions & Frozen Four, 2014 NCHC Champions
    UMD Women: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010
    Gopher Football: 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
    Johnnie Football: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003
    UMD Football: 2008, 2010
    UMD Men: 2011

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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    Here's another thread that Dubbie-Wubbie has railroaded. All under the guise of having "honest questions" that he's "really interested in the responses to."

    The thing is that theses honest questions and observations ALWAYS have the same goal in mind - to prop up Minnesota as the bestest college hockey program of all time. It's not even thinly veiled. Every thread he's in - EVERY. It's obvious and transparent and that is the reason that people call him on it.

    As Dirty said, without fail Dubbie will play the victim at that point. "What? That's not what i was saying? I just had an honest question."

    Thank God he's not in the cafe or we'd have to hear ad nauseum how the Replacements were the best rock band ever or how Minnesota is the best place to take a vacation etc, etc, etc.
    Gurt, the Replacements were the best rock band ever its not even debatable.;p
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  15. #115
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by HumRsky View Post
    Championship season is upon us, Quinnipiac and Niagara have already locked up regular season titles and I thought I'd dig this up to see where teams stand and where they might end up by the end of the season. I've already added the aforementioned titles that have been earned so far this year, and also added an NCAA appearance to Lake Superior State's total that I had erroneously left out last year.
    The scoring system I used is as follows:
    National Title (NT) - 10pts
    Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
    Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
    Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
    Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
    NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
    Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
    Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
    NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

    For a full explanation, go to the first post in the thread.
    In my opinion It is very hard to place second which is why I believe second place deserves more points, maybe 7 points.
    Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
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  16. #116
    Mr. Sanctimonious Gurtholfin's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by 4four4 View Post
    Gurt, the Replacements were the best rock band ever its not even debatable.;p

    Yes, there's that...

  17. #117
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    Yes, there's that...
    On the way in the store 89.3 the Current played "Sky Way". Possibly, the greatest Replacement song eva. ;P
    Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by HumRsky View Post
    This is a ranking I put together of every current D1 hockey team based only on what they have accomplished; winning %, NCAA win % and other metrics were not considered. This is not intended to be better than FS23's in any way. This represents about 4-5 hours of research and math, not years and I do believe that the metrics FS23 used are very valid for comparing programs, this is just another way of ranking the teams.

    The scoring system I used is as follows:
    National Title (NT) - 10pts
    Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
    Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
    Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
    Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
    NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
    Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
    Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
    NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

    Further explanation:
    Minor Conference Titles are designated with a lowercase "m," so if a team has one minor conference title it would be designated 1m in that column. Similarly, for the seasons in which there were two WCHA playoff "winners" I gave those teams half credit, or 2 points and those titles are designated with a lowercase "h," so if a team was a playoff co-winner 7 times, it will be designated 7h in that column. I gave full credit to all regular season champions, even co-Champions, because I didn't feel like going back and sorting through all that.
    The Tri-State League and the Ivy League are considered major conference champions from 1948-49 until the formation of the ECAC in 1961-62. This gave teams in those league perhaps an unfair advantage, Harvard and St. Lawrence were helped particularly by this inclusion and people will probably bemoan how high they are ranked. The champions of those leagues after the formation of the ECAC were not included. I considered the first season of the Midwest Collegiate Hockey League in 1951-52 as the first season of the WCHA. I considered all CCHA championships as major although a strong argument could be made that it was not a major conference until the late '70s. The minor conference I used are MAAC/Atlantic Hockey, College Hockey America, and the Great West.

    Note that points are cumulative. For example, another way of looking at the points is that a National Title is worth 25 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 4 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance, 1 National Title) and a runner up is worth 14 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 3 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance) and so on... People will probably also gripe that, particularly in the minor conferences, the playoff title should be worth more because of the auto-bid, but don't forget the auto-bid means an NCAA appearance and an automatic 2 additional points that are not guaranteed to the Regular Season Champion.

    I will list all of the numbers and total points, so if you really don't like my point system, come up with your own and plug it into the numbers given.
    The rankings will be in the next post...discuss.
    If you are counting NCAA Championships..... Then Bemidji State should be kicking EVERYONE'S ***. :P

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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
    There are subjective factors that cannot be quantitated mathmatically.
    ah, but if you cannot measure something, how can you tell whether it really exists? it might merely be an artifact of your imagination....

    or is this now an Aquinas vs Sartre throwdown??
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    Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Quote Originally Posted by GopherBigGuy911 View Post
    If you are counting NCAA Championships..... Then Bemidji State should be kicking EVERYONE'S ***. :P
    if you really want to go there...Middlebury kicks BSU's ***.

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