Christ is Risen!

[geezer]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Hey Foxton! It turns out religion is good for you!
hee hee

more good stuff in the linked Forbes article. The difference put forth for the success of the religious/failure of secularism is that religious people have more kids, which is the most important component of (long-term) prosperity/happiness/well-being/etc.

[duper]

Re: Christ is Risen!

You spend your entire life eating mackerel and see how you feel.

One word. Lutefisk. I'd blow my brains out the first time.

[Greyeagle]

Re: Christ is Risen!

The Irish group thought God was vindictive and angry, out to get them if they screwed up.

Living under British rule for so long has that affect!

[huskyfan]

Re: Christ is Risen!

The Irish group thought God was vindictive and angry, out to get them if they screwed up. The French thought God was judgemental and punished their sins but not as angry as the Irish God. The Italians thought God would get over almost anything and altho he was important it didn't scare them to mess up.

the Italians are like "hey, wine, women, its all coool" the French are like, "God? he dares JUDGE the French? oui?" and the poor Irish are "we are ***"....

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Foxton is just a bitter, lonely, trolling POS who makes the rest of us skeptics look like complete arseholes. There, I said it. Blow me.

[Timothy A]

Re: Christ is Risen!

I'll buy this.

edit: I've personally witnessed many of my friends who started out as very kind, compassionate people transform into judgmental, self-righteous, jerks as they got deeper and deeper into their "faith." The more Bible study and theological reading they do, the more they start to care about the nuances of infant vs. adult baptism, etc and the less they start to care about loving their neighbors. You don't need a Bible study or a church or even a religion to love your neighbors - you just don't.

There are no nuances about adult vs infant baptism. The Bible does not differentiate. Baptism is Baptism.

Loving your neighbors certianly is not limited to Christians. It's sad your friends have digressed to the point they are. We shoud not pass judgement on others and get all self righteous. Look at yourself first, humbly confess your sins, and repent/change your ways. (The below passages are also a good example of Jesus showing us that the Old Testament Law is now overwritten by New Testament Gospel. I think Foxy was griping about this previously.)

John 8 V1... but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.

It's hard to get self-righteous when you look at yourself and see you are dripping with sin. It is our job to point out sin, but that can be done without the ugly self-righteousness. And if they don't repent, you have to let it go and move on.

Matthew 18 v15
15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Happiess...My family has all sorts of problems, but when you place your trust in God, pray to him for help, and lovingly accept his answers to your prayers, (which don't always have the outcome you desire), it really takes a load off your chest. You just do your best with the gifts he's given you and keep thankfully chugging along, knowing that Heaven is your home. A few more verses.

1 Thessalonians 5 16-18
16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

[state of hockey]

anyone who looks at life with caring compassion love and gratitude is going to be happier. duh.

I'm curious. for those who revile the Christian faith. how do you feel about other faiths? Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Buddhists?


if the Christian theology is a little hard to follow (and it sure can be), perhaps a faith like Buddhism can be easier. and it teaches all the good stuff - love, self sacrifice, compassion, community, appreciation of nature, without having to directly "worship" a "God".

You do realize that people don't have to believe in any of this to be able to treat others in compassion, right?

[cF[Authentic]]

You do realize that people don't have to believe in any of this to be able to treat others in compassion, right?

I'm guessing he does considering he didn't say anything close to what you're asking him. Let's just all agree that everyone agrees anyone can treat others compassionately regardless of religious affiliation or atheistic lifestyle. Not one person in this thread has said otherwise and it is extremely doubtful anyone believes compassion is reserved for Christians, or anyone religious.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Good post Tim A. I wonder if part of Lynah's deal is not Christianity but rather his local. The handful of churches I attend...that type is the exception and not the norm.

You do realize that people don't have to believe in any of this to be able to treat others in compassion, right?

Agree with cF on this. IMO Christianity and Jesus are the primary driver/source of compassion and likewise, that Christianity reinforces compassion in you to the nth degree. Its really the place for compassion junkies.

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Hey Foxton! It turns out religion is good for you!

And it's good that men take over so women start to know their place in the home as baby factories as one source for the forbes article points out.

http://www.newamerica.net/publicatio..._of_patriarchy

more good stuff in the linked Forbes article. The difference put forth for the success of the religious/failure of secularism is that religious people have more kids, which is the most important component of (long-term) prosperity/happiness/well-being/etc.

In other news, having more kids generally means you have the means to do so, which means you're likely more better off than a single mom living on wellfare trying to scrape by. Gee, people who are successful enough to support 3 or more kids are happier than those who have to chose between rent or food? SHOCKING!

Loving your neighbors certianly is not limited to Christians. It's sad your friends have digressed to the point they are. We shoud not pass judgement on others and get all self righteous. Look at yourself first, humbly confess your sins, and repent/change your ways. (The below passages are also a good example of Jesus showing us that the Old Testament Law is now overwritten by New Testament Gospel. I think Foxy was griping about this previously.)

Because Jesus says it....

Luke 16:17 The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

Cast the first stone story...


It's hard to get self-righteous when you look at yourself and see you are dripping with sin. It is our job to point out sin, but that can be done without the ugly self-righteousness. And if they don't repent, you have to let it go and move on.

It's an old testament law reference just like your next passage, in this case needing witnesses, and in the other where to go for deciding issues about interpersonal sin that will be resolved by removing them from the congregation. Not applied wholesale to everyone.

A few more verses.

How bout?

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.”

And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observec your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’d and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death. But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

How about beating servants? Or you know, slaves. What say you on that Jeebus?

The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

Agree with cF on this. IMO Christianity and Jesus are the primary driver/source of compassion and likewise, that Christianity reinforces compassion in you to the nth degree. Its really the place for compassion junkies.

How does the concept of hell and everlasting torment fit into the word "compassion"?
*****http://i.imgur.com/EgroI.jpg******

[geezer]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Foxton, thanks so much! Could you do me a favor and explain to us about Moses? Thanks!

apologies to those of you who have already caught on.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Christ is Risen!

How does the concept of hell and everlasting torment fit into the word "compassion"?

The Jesus message is that through compassion you avoid torment. The word hell is in the gospels about 20 times, love about 180. There's little question what Jesus was about.

*****http://i.imgur.com/EgroI.jpg******

It largely has been a hospital. From wiki...

The declaration of Christianity as accepted religion in the Roman Empire drove an expansion of the provision of care. Following First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. construction of a hospital in every cathedral town was begun. Medieval hospitals in Europe followed a similar pattern to the Byzantine. They were religious communities, with care provided by monks and nuns.

Without that either one of our lineages could have been wiped out.

Today, Christianity would not be fullfilling its mission as a positive influence on society by pushing itself further into such a complex area with such critical consequences where there are more specialized organizations on healthcare. But still Christianity is a focal point for massive donations often making healthcare possible and Christian hopitals still host 18% of American hospital beds. So the religion has done about as much as it possibly can...and over time has given more at little or no cost to care recipients than all other institutions combined.

[LynahFan]

Re: Christ is Risen!

There are no nuances about adult vs infant baptism. The Bible does not differentiate. Baptism is Baptism.

Tim, you seem to be and extremely genuine, compassionate person who truly approaches evangelism as sharing your faith as a gift, rather than as an orthodoxy to be imposed. I recognize and appreciate the difference - I have no doubt that you will be successful in attracting many people to Christianity.

That's why it's a real shame that you'll be going to hell due to this belief (according to my fundie friends) - see you there.

Seriously, though - the church I grew up in was a huge (3000+ members) mainstream Methodist church, one of the largest and most prestigious in our conference. Our senior pastors basically always retired, because placement at our church was generally the pinnacle of a long career. Except for this one distinguished pastor, who was run out of the church on a rail. His offense? During a private discussion with a church member on various theological topics, this well-regarded pastor had the temerity to suggest that he wouldn't be surprised to see Gandhi in heaven. Not that Gandhi *should* be in heaven or would *definitely* be in heaven - just that he wouldn't be surprised. The Congregation rebelled and decided as a body that he was not fit to be the spiritual leader of the church.

I wonder if part of Lynah's deal is not Christianity but rather his local.

My situation is quite a bit like disliking a particular hockey program just because you had a bad experience with a few of their fans - but when you see patterns of behavior repeated many times, how can you *not* be shaped by your experience?

[joecct]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Roman Catholics believe the same as Tim. Once you're baptized, the sin of Adam (and all other sins) is wiped out - you are a new person spiritually.
As to who is in heaven - I leave that up to the Supreme Judge - no sense in arguing down here. Heck if Peter can get in after denying Him 3 times, anyone can.

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Foxton, thanks so much! Could you do me a favor and explain to us about Moses? Thanks!

Nah, I'm tired of talking about a guy who raped, pillaged, and slaughtered thousands on a daily basis making his way to tholy land.

The Jesus message is that through compassion you avoid torment. The word hell is in the gospels about 20 times, love about 180. There's little question what Jesus was about.

Through compassion.... you avoid torment...

....

Alright Fischer.


I'm pretty sure I would rank everyone above your god in the compassion compartment if eternal torment is one of two options that you lay out. Hopefully those poor people who haven't heard the good news will get a pardon.

It largely has been a hospital. From wiki...

Where else would we go?

The declaration of Christianity as accepted religion in the Roman Empire drove an expansion of the provision of care. Following First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. construction of a hospital in every cathedral town was begun. Medieval hospitals in Europe followed a similar pattern to the Byzantine. They were religious communities, with care provided by monks and nuns.

Source - The catholic encyclopedia who "exerted its beneficent influence; the same spirit of charity appears wherever the Christian Faith is spread among the fierce and uncultured peoples just emerging from barbarism."

And it's so fantastic that things that happened nearly two thousand years ago, negates how today's opulence of various denominations isn't rather hypocritical. Nevermind that the power of religion at that time was absolute and no one else could have possibly created anyplace to provide even the most basic of medical care, if places run by people who make Mother Theresa look like a physician can be considered hospitals. They did their best to work with faith based cures and maybe some based on barbarian methods, which they then proceeded to stamp out on their way to the dark ages. Which I'm sure next you'll say weren't kind of a horrible era to live in. It's not really until the black death that the masses stopped trying to pray away demons to cure disease when it decimated Europe.

Remind me again what they did at that council? Was it, by vote, decide what fit their idea of doctrine and what didn't? Funny way of deciding divine truth.

Today, Christianity would not be fullfilling its mission as a positive influence on society by pushing itself further into such a complex area with such critical consequences where there are more specialized organizations on healthcare.

Funny how they didn't keep up with the times. They had such a great head start, what with the money and the owning/running most of them.

But still Christianity is a focal point for massive donations often making healthcare possible and Christian hopitals still host 18% of American hospital beds. So the religion has done about as much as it possibly can...and over time has given more at little or no cost to care recipients than all other institutions combined.

Well that's amazing!