Christ is Risen!

[geezer]

Re: Christ is Risen!

The book discussed in these ongoing essays might be interesting. I like how he explains the difference between "orthodoxy" and "fundamentalism".

[Bob Gray]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Ya.

Regarding this Spong guy, IMO if one determines that the Bible is not strictly literal...pretty much the argument I heard is gone. This...more quickly then it took him to explain it. Afterall, the purpose of the Bible is not to describe reality...but rather to set up guidelines on how to live. And no Jesus is not floating around Venus.

I'd say the Bible is all about Jesus and getting to know him, and good healthy ways of living come out of that, but aren't the direct purpose.

[Kepler]

Re: Christ is Risen!

I'd say the Bible is all about Jesus and getting to know him, and good healthy ways of living come out of that, but aren't the direct purpose.

The New Testament I can absolutely see that. I don't really see that in the Old Testament, which seems more the Homeric myths of the Jewish people.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Christ is Risen!

The New Testament I can absolutely see that. I don't really see that in the Old Testament, which seems more the Homeric myths of the Jewish people.

Certainly there's a lot more stuff going on in different directions in the Old Testament, and some of it's hard to always make sense of. Nothing wrong in admitting that, whether one is a Christian or not. I think parts of the Old Testament they are telling stories and history and it isn't meant to literally do what every verse says happened, since a lot of bad stuff happened to people at times. Maybe a way to say it is that the New Testament builds on the Old Testament. There's a fair amount of foreshadowing of New Testament stuff here and there in the Old Testament.

[FreshFish]

Re: Christ is Risen!

The book discussed in these ongoing essays might be interesting. I like how he explains the difference between "orthodoxy" and "fundamentalism".

Reads like a longer version of George Carlin's distillation of the Ten Commandments down to two.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Certainly there's a lot more stuff going on in different directions in the Old Testament, and some of it's hard to always make sense of. Nothing wrong in admitting that, whether one is a Christian or not. I think parts of the Old Testament they are telling stories and history and it isn't meant to literally do what every verse says happened, since a lot of bad stuff happened to people at times. Maybe a way to say it is that the New Testament builds on the Old Testament. There's a fair amount of foreshadowing of New Testament stuff here and there in the Old Testament.

I've always said I consider the old testament to be the introduction to the big show. I think that's what got me on Handy's ignore list.

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Treating as a serious question...

I wait with bated breath.

Many assume that the Bible is exactly literal if for no other reason because most books today are such.

It's probably more that it very often uses plain, unambiguous statements of things that they say happened, and it's only been with the passage of time and new discoveries that it's statements have no longer been taken as fact. You seem to be interested in history, do you not know this? It's not because books 'today' are literal.

There is no place that it claims that each specific word is to be taken as is...but it does talk about the general message or 'word'.

There's no place it says to take it with a grain of salt. And that word is the divine truth. And the truth isn't really the truth unless it's 100% true.

Rather if you think about it at all, you reach the conclusion that ultimately the Bible is about Jesus...he's God or son of God, he came late, was documented and set the record straight.

What was the problem with getting it right in the first place? Seriously, it's not like your god wasn't active when telling the jews exactly how they were supposed to live. He even took the time, much longer than it took him to create all of reality, to inform the jews on how to create an arc so he could travel with them, and how they should sacrifice animals to him. (Because burning animal flesh was a pleasing smell to him)

Well Jesus was all about stories and metaphors to make larger points.

Is he a metaphor or not? Why is everything else a metaphor but he's literal? I ask again, by what measure is this decided. Is it just because this sounds nice and fits with what I like? Why aren't the things that he drew his figurative power from literal? Events or passages that he affirmed directly were literal. World wide flood, Adam and Eve, Jonah getting swallowed by a giant fish. He references all of them as if they happened.

'He without sin should cast the first stone'. This is obviously not about putting together laws on stoning...but rather a message about judgement.

It's Jesus justifying himself by using OT law. (More confirmation of him viewing it as not just a bunch of fluff to pass over in order to get to him) Don't believe that? Here's the next part where he directly says what he's doing.

John 8:13-18
"13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

18 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

But since everyone's a dirty sinner only jeebus can judge.

Thus as a collection of metaphors to set up an overall approach to life is what Jesus was all about (and he is essentially God)...why wouldn't the Bible do the same?

Since you said you were taking the question seriously, how are you deciding what is and what isn't literal?

[duper]

Re: Christ is Risen!

I wonder if Foxton realizes how dumb that question is?

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

I wonder if Foxton realizes how dumb that question is?

This is a thread attempting to celebrate a jewish guy, who's mother stuck to her story, who rose from the dead, although there are at least half a dozen individuals and hundreds/thousands of others mentioned who also did this feat, who wants you to drink his blood and eat his flesh so you can live with him and his father for eternity.

I think me asking how does one pick and chose which method they use to follow their cosmic north korean dictator isn't that out of line.

[Greyeagle]

Re: Christ is Risen!

This is a thread attempting to celebrate a jewish guy, who's mother stuck to her story, who rose from the dead, although there are at least half a dozen individuals and hundreds/thousands of others mentioned who also did this feat, who wants you to drink his blood and eat his flesh so you can live with him and his father for eternity.

I think me asking how does one pick and chose which method they use to follow their cosmic north korean dictator isn't that out of line.

Jesus & Kim would be a hell of a pairing in the final day of The Masters.

[state of hockey]

Jesus & Kim would be a hell of a pairing in the final day of The Masters.

I'd watch that. Throw in Mothra and I'd record it.

[duper]

Re: Christ is Risen!

This is a thread attempting to celebrate a jewish guy, who's mother stuck to her story, who rose from the dead, although there are at least half a dozen individuals and hundreds/thousands of others mentioned who also did this feat, who wants you to drink his blood and eat his flesh so you can live with him and his father for eternity.

I think me asking how does one pick and chose which method they use to follow their cosmic north korean dictator isn't that out of line.

Did I say it was out of line? I think not. I said it was dumb. Asking someone to quantify something that is an article of faith is dumb. Of course, you know that, you just hope that someone is dumb enough to take your stupid question seriously.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Did I say it was out of line? I think not. I said it was dumb. Asking someone to quantify something that is an article of faith is dumb. Of course, you know that, you just hope that someone is dumb enough to take your stupid question seriously.

I look at it a bit differently. I don't think the question was so dumb. Message boards are full of sharing opinions on matters. Afterall by definition faith is like an opinion.

Perhaps the part that was 'less than smart' was me expecting any other response than was given. F seems to think the Bible has to be literal (still not sure why) when the cornerstone approach of Jesus' (or God's) whole message was metaphorical. So based on that and the tone used, discussion with him/her does seem a waste.

[Tiggsy]

Re: Christ is Risen!

I look at it a bit differently. I don't think the question was so dumb. Message boards are full of sharing opinions on matters. Afterall by definition faith is like an opinion.

Perhaps the part that was 'less than smart' was me expecting any other response than was given. F seems to think the Bible has to be literal (still not sure why) when the cornerstone approach of Jesus' (or God's) whole message was metaphorical. So based on that and the tone used, discussion with him/her does seem a waste.

I think you're right about that. Asking someone to explain faith is pretty pointless. There is no "rational" explanation which is why it's called faith. The other confusing thing is why those so anti-religion think that all followers are litteral when it comes to the bible. Do people really think they are drinking blood in church? Not likely. Of course there are those hard core nutjobs out there which they typically point to as examples, but everyone knows those are very rare exceptions. Most religious folk are normal people who are just looking for something higher to believe in to help them make sense of things in the world.

[Foxton]

Re: Christ is Risen!

Perhaps the part that was 'less than smart' was me expecting any other response than was given. F seems to think the Bible has to be literal (still not sure why) when the cornerstone approach of Jesus' (or God's) whole message was metaphorical. So based on that and the tone used, discussion with him/her does seem a waste.

I don't think anything, I know that throughout it's history it has been intended to be taken literally. You wanted to bring up universities as if they supported christianity, but don't even know what they studied in them.

What I asked, and you ignored, was an explanation on how you decide what should and shouldn't be taken literally in your favorite book of divine truth. I'm not asking you to detail why you believe, or whatever experience let Jesus come into you like god did into Mary, but what's your yard stick to decide if this is too extreme to be believed and this is just right.

Because by your response, clearly your faith is built upon whatever you find to be acceptable at the time and if the next passage is unacceptable then you just ignore it. There is nothing deeper to it, it's just a vacuous position of 'because I said so'.

What a joke.