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Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

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  • #91
    Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

    Let's put it this way: I don't think there's a single fanbase in the country that wouldn't happily trade their coach for Jerry York.

    Anyone who claims otherwise is lying.
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    • #92
      Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

      So I'm guessing you think the best college coach of all time came from the WCHA? I'm guessing you think it's Herb Brooks...which is fine. The fact you don't think BC would have been quite as successful in the WCHA becomes irrelevant when it comes to national tournament results. BC is 11-4 against WCHA competition in the NCAA tournament under York.

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      • #93
        Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

        Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
        Jerry York is the best coach of all time on the east coast. I am biased but if he and his club were in the WCHA I don't believe they could have dominated the W like he has in HE. Why? Historically, from top to bottom the WCHA's depth is the best in the country. It is so hard to dominate the WCHA and they prove it every year. Any way congrats to Jerry York and his BC Eagles on a job well done. When you come to town I know where you are getting your pizza from. Every year Jerry sends his team photo to Campus Pizza in Stadium Village and they post it every year. It is the only non-Gopher related attire in the whole restaurant. Class act.
        But I thought WCHA teams have played the role of the 1974-75 Washington Capitals against BC in the NCAAs three of the past five years?

        Just kidding, sort of. The WCHA is an excellent league, sorry to see it go after next season.

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        • #94
          Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

          Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
          Jerry York is the best coach of all time on the east coast. I am biased but if he and his club were in the WCHA I don't believe they could have dominated the W like he has in HE. Why? Historically, from top to bottom the WCHA's depth is the best in the country. It is so hard to dominate the WCHA and they prove it every year. Any way congrats to Jerry York and his BC Eagles on a job well done. When you come to town I know where you are getting your pizza from. Every year Jerry sends his team photo to Campus Pizza in Stadium Village and they post it every year. It is the only non-Gopher related attire in the whole restaurant. Class act.
          That's right. I forgot that the NC should just automatically be given to a WCHA team. Would that be the RS winner, or the tournament victor, 444?
          Originally posted by J.D. View Post
          So I'm guessing you think the best college coach of all time came from the WCHA? I'm guessing you think it's Herb Brooks...which is fine. The fact you don't think BC would have been quite as successful in the WCHA becomes irrelevant when it comes to national tournament results. BC is 11-4 against WCHA competition in the NCAA tournament under York.
          I won't even argue the contention that the W is deeper, but the fact remains that BC, under York, has owned the WCHA. It's tough to dominate the WCHA, 444? Jerry's done it. Period.
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          • #95
            Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

            Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
            Jerry York is the best coach of all time on the east coast. I am biased but if he and his club were in the WCHA I don't believe they could have dominated the W like he has in HE. Why? Historically, from top to bottom the WCHA's depth is the best in the country. It is so hard to dominate the WCHA and they prove it every year.
            I'm sure he'd do well enough to get into the NCAAs where he has been ramming the WCHA in the pooper for 15 years now.

            11-4 record

            Combined score:
            BC Eagles 64 - WCHA pushovers 38

            AVG: 4.37 to 2.53
            Diff: +1.73
            Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
            The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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            • #96
              Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

              Hard to argue against it imho even if such a 'title' doesn't come by way of a flawless methodology. If he's not he's right there and it would seem he's not done yet adding banners/trophies. Hopefully none more at the expense of UM.

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              • #97
                Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                Originally posted by Rover View Post

                Listened to a piece on him on NPR maybe Thursday, and he was saying that he prefers to recruit 18 year olds straight out of high school as opposed to 21 year olds because they more easily adapt to the college atmosphere (dorms, restrictions, etc) than older kids. Given the trend towards older players, I wonder if that's a big factor in setting the BC program apart. Regardless, York clicks in all three areas - recruiting, motivation, and in game strategy.
                I took this mean that he prefers "talent" to "experience" more so than adaptability etc.

                One of the great lines from the Movie "Chariots of Fire" - "I can't put in what God left out...."

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                • #98
                  Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                  Originally posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
                  OK so discussion is about "best NCAA hockey coach" and you're talking about lacrosse. I'm not understanding how that is relevant.
                  Allow me to rephrase:

                  Harkness took 2 programs who had never even been to the NCAA tournament to titles within 4 years of taking over their programs - while coaching college hockey part time.
                  If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                  • #99
                    Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                    Originally posted by Onion Man View Post
                    Lucia is arguably better as is Gwozdecky (both have as many titles). I have no hate for Michigan, but Berenson is overrated without a doubt.
                    You might not have hate for Michigan, but you seem to have an objectivity-free view of Berenson. By what criteria is he overrated? Tournament appearances? Frozen Four appearances? Championships? Players developed? Disappointments? Name one criteria that others, other than York, do not share. Michigan has a streak of tournament appearances no one else comes close to matching under Berenson. He has won two championships. He has won conference titles and tournaments. He has done this with a frequency similar to other coaches.

                    Is it because of "flame-outs?" Michigan has failed to make the final eight in the NCAA tournament only three times in the 22 years he has been in the tournament. He has lost earlier than expected, but so have Gwoz, Lucia, Blais, Jackson, and even York (first-round blowout to CC last season, anyone?). That is balanced out by years where Michigan has out-performed its expectations, such as... last season.

                    Is he overrated because Michigan players don't succeed in the NHL? 24 played this year.

                    Is he overrated because other coaches have done more? York has, but nobody has argued that he is better than York. Nobody. Has Lucia done "more?" They were talking about firing him last year. Has Gwoz done "more?"

                    If you are arguing he is not as good as York, there's no need; I made it for you in a post which you disputed for absolutely no reason. If you are arguing he is not a top coach in college hockey, you are arguing from pride rather than from fact, and from emotion rather than reason.

                    I understand not liking someone from a competitive standpoint; I don't like York from that standpoint. I used to loathe Joe Sakic, too (born-and-raised Wings fan here) but I had to recognize his skill and career accomplishment. My competitive view of York does not cloud my judgment about how good he actually is. You may root against Red, but your argument lacks substance.
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                    • Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                      Berenson is a competent regular season coach who can't seem to succeed in the postseason. He has an easy recruiting job since it's Michigan and they have a made to order USNPT pipeline in Ann Arbor. He consistently flops in the CCHA playoffs and, despite all the talent he has, has appeared in just one NCAA final since the 1998 season (last year obviously). First round loss to Air Force a few years ago, first round loss to Cornell, etc. If not for Regionals at Yost years ago, maybe he misses one of those FFs in the early 2000s, too.

                      To answer your question with another, if he has 24 NHL players, why does he have 2 NCAA titles since Clinton was President? In my opinion, Berenson can't win the big one. It's as simply as that. If my argument lacks substance, please tell me why a guy who has one of the easiest recruiting jobs in the country has less Frozen Four appearances than Maine or UNH since 1998?

                      A better coach and UM has a run like BC is on right now at some point.
                      Brown Bears - 2014 National Champions

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                      • Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                        You just said he can't win the big one... Then you touted UNH's record.

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                        Winning Championships is tough... Don't care how stacked your deck is, winning multiple means he CAN win the big one
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                        • Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                          History question:

                          Your program is a mess. Your coach has been promising scholarships that don’t exist.

                          You have an alumnus (in fact a double eagle) who has been a successful coach at two schools, winning a national championship with one. So with your program in need of a squeaky clean, competent coach, you hire …

                          Mike Milbury?

                          Why didn’t they approach York immediately after Cedorchuck got canned?

                          I wasn’t following BC hockey much at that point, but in retrospect, that was a very curious decision.

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                          • Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                            Question: would we judge a coach's performance strictly by NCAA titles? If a team like RIT makes the FF, but does not win the title, is there no difference between the job that he did that year and (say) the job that a guy did who led a historically strong WCHA team to a sub-.500 regular season, and an invitation to sit out the NCAA tournament? Of course not. "All other things" are never equal, and we take those things into account. Otherwise, we'd simply give the Penrose award to the NCAA tournament-winning coach, and be done with it.

                            Here's the thing with Berenson. He's old. He's a Michigan legend. He's a very good coach. But being a legendary old coach doesn't make him an elite coach. Honestly, I think he's flattered to be in the same sentence as York.

                            Michigan's NCAA streak is a wonderful thing. I'm envious. Believe me.

                            But is there another college hockey coach, anywhere in the country, who is better placed to produce those results than Red? Is any other program/coach even close?

                            Over the past 20 years, the CCHA has inarguably been weaker than either the WCHA (5 different programs winning championships, 3 with multiple championships) or Hockey East (3 programs with multiple titles, one of which is also the best program in the country over the last 15 years or so, plus perennial regular season and NCAA contender UNH). Yes, Lake State was as formidable an opponent as any, during the first few years. But the operative phrase there is "first few years." Michigan State, Notre Dame, and Ferris have had flashes. Miami seems to be on an upswing. But year-in, year-out, it's just easier to build an NCAA-qualifying record in the CCHA than in the WCHA or HEA.

                            Michigan's performance in the NCAAs over the past 15 years has been mediocre at best - and the reason it's even mediocre is that Michigan has profited from home cooking. In Michigan's last 13 regionals held at any arena in the country not named Yost, they've advanced to one FF. One. Twice they played at Yost; twice they advanced to the FF.

                            So Red's 3 for 15 (uscho.com archive era) Take away home cooking and he's 1 for 13. It's not unreasonable at all to extrapolate that, if Michigan played elsewhere in 2002 and 2003, they may have missed the FF, and then you're looking at a 1 for 15(!) conversion rate in advancing out of regionals.

                            And that's despite all the things that Onion mentioned. I'm not getting into a MI/MN/MA contest, but there's no question Michigan is one of best "hockey" states. UM athletics is about as prestigious as it gets in collegiate sports -- and UM itself is only a shade below the Ivies. The location is favorable (to say the least) with respect to the national development program. It's also favorable for attracting Canadian talent. Sure, other schools are also near Canada. But while other schools are near Canadian trees and farmland, A2 is near Canadian people. Including young people who play hockey.

                            TL/DR:

                            Making the NCAAs is really the least one should expect from Michigan. Really, you'd like to see Michigan take advantage of its near-autoberth once the NCAA tournament starts. York is clearly tops in the modern era. Then there's a group of coaches with 2 titles. I'm not sure I'd put Red at the top of that group.
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                            • Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                              Originally posted by amherstblackbear View Post

                              Michigan's performance in the NCAAs over the past 15 years has been mediocre at best - and the reason it's even mediocre is that Michigan has profited from home cooking. In Michigan's last 13 regionals held at any arena in the country not named Yost, they've advanced to one FF. One. Twice they played at Yost; twice they advanced to the FF.
                              Not sure if I understand the point you are making in the quoted paragraph, but just in this century (12 regionals), Michigan has advanced to the FF 3 times in regionals not played in a building named Yost, 2001 out of the regional in Grand Rapids, 2008 out of the regional in Albany and 2011 out of the regional in St. Louis. None of those buildings were named Yost.

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                              • Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time

                                Good points. I was rushing

                                I saw the 2001 box score and forgot for a moment that the FF was in Albany - was confusing it with the year before, when Albany was a regional site. Not sure how I whiffed on 2008.

                                So the correct numbers are 5-15 overall; 3-13 outside Yost. I'm not going to dig up info that predates the USCHO archive, and I'm happy to submit that the performance was quite a bit better before the USCHO archives start (1997-1998).

                                The basic argument is still there. I'm impressed by the NCAA streak, but I'm not exactly amazed by it. And I'm still underwhelmed* by the performance *in* the NCAAs.

                                *Fair is fair. With the corrected numbers, I do have to promote the record from "alarmingly poor" to "underwhelming." (:
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