2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

don't be so quick to judge us Christians!

A friend of mine says "condemn the sin, embrace the sinner." His religious views give me the creeps, but as long as you can keep him talking about other things, he's a fine friend to have. He is one of the most generous and caring people I know. Most of the 'born again' types I know personally do try to "walk the walk" as best they can, and are reluctant to judge other people, knowing how prone to fault they are themselves.

There is a stereotype of self-righteous evangelicals, I wonder how much of that is parody born of discomfort. I've never met anyone in person who is anything at all like the stereotype, and the only ones I've seen and heard who do, only appear on television on strange channels at odd hours.

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

A friend of mine says "condemn the sin, embrace the sinner." His religious views give me the creeps, but as long as you can keep him talking about other things, he's a fine friend to have. He is one of the most generous and caring people I know. Most of the 'born again' types I know personally do try to "walk the walk" as best they can, and are reluctant to judge other people, knowing how prone to fault they are themselves.

There is a stereotype of self-righteous evangelicals, I wonder how much of that is parody born of discomfort. I've never met anyone in person who is anything at all like the stereotype, and the only ones I've seen and heard who do, only appear on television on strange channels at odd hours.

I have been unfortunate enough to meet quite a few of these people. Many of them talk the talk about not judging people, but the measure of a man is his actions, not his words.

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

the measure of a man is his actions, not his words.

well put, exactly my point as well. I guess we must know different people then; my friends with 'extreme' religious views all behave very well; as do all the atheists I know. If you only looked at their actions you couldn't tell which was which (except that many of the anti-abortion people I know have adopted a child while none of the atheists have).

I recall a quote attributed to Gandhi, when asked who was the greatest moral philosopher, he replied "Jesus Christ." When asked if he then would become a Christian, he replied, "why, when so few of them actually follow Christ's teaching."

I like to think that the Son of God came twice, once to the west as Jesus and once to the east as the Buddha. I studied comparative religions in college for awhile and it seems to me that no matter what religion you profess, 95% of it is the same. "Treat other people well, tell the truth, don't take things that don't belong to you."

George Carlin said it best when he edited the Ten Commandments down to two. It is a great, great routine, if anyone can find it and post the clip.

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I was raised and confirmed Lutheran. Basically be baptized and accept GodJesusGhost as the guy and you're already saved.

Christianity is stuck in a discussion centered on the wrong issues.

1. Most of folks get hit over the head at church by faith for the sake of faith growing up. When there isn't visible evidence, they walk away.

2. Many evangelicals and athiests at the extremes mess up today's discussion...by saying its science or nothing, its abstenance or screw over whoever you can.

3. Religion is a lense and is usually not a good one. You have to understand the bible.

4. Most of the bible is relevant but usually put in as parables or lessons...but Jesus is the deal. He came late, could correct the message and as son of God, had the autority to do so.

So for me, its about what Jesus' main plank was...love thy neighbor and do good. Belief in God is really belief in the message and vice versa.

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

(except that many of the anti-abortion people I know have adopted a child while none of the atheists have).

Well, now you know an atheist who has. Considered yourself broadened.

[duper]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Well, now you know an atheist who has. Considered yourself broadened.

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

So for me, its about what Jesus' main plank was...love thy neighbor and do good. Belief in God is really belief in the message and vice versa.

very well put.

most atheists seem to me to believe in something greater than themselves, they just don't want to use the word "god" to describe it. a few try to maintain that moral behavior is merely an expedient choice (if I behave well then other people will trust me and i'll be able to cooperate with them and so society for all of us will be the better for it).

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

most atheists seem to me to believe in something greater than themselves, they just don't want to use the word "god" to describe it. a few try to maintain that moral behavior is merely an expedient choice (if I behave well then other people will trust me and i'll be able to cooperate with them and so society for all of us will be the better for it).

That's probably fair. It also depends on who gets to define what God is. Most people who call themselves "Believers" wouldn't accept, say, Spinoza's God as an acceptable definition of God (impersonal, uninterested in us, hemmed in by logical restrictions). It's like driving: everybody going faster than you is a lunatic and everybody going slower than you is a heathen.

[huskyfan]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

personally, I don't get all caught up in the details. Aquinas, Spinoza, all over my head. whether you believe in Jesus, Buddha, Allah, the Hindu gods, nothing - its all the same - its a belief - and as beliefs one is not inherently superior to others. I also believe that we are so small and so tiny compared to the HUGE universe that we probably don't have a clue what god is all about. like an ant trying to figure out the automobile that just parked on its anthill.

didn't mean to hijack the political thread with religious talk. it does pull my chain when people assume there is a "Christian" mindset and somehow Pat Robertson and Rick Santorum epitomize it.

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

personally, I don't get all caught up in the details. Aquinas, Spinoza, all over my head. whether you believe in Jesus, Buddha, Allah, the Hindu gods, nothing - its all the same - its a belief - and as beliefs one is not inherently superior to others.

Maybe that's part of the issue. Its not about whether you should believe one name or the other. Its the differences that matter. Its about having a moral position, and caring enough about that position to get involved at a greater level...which is where faith comes from.

[Carter]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Maybe that's part of the issue. Its not about whether you should believe one name or the other. Its the differences that matter. Its about having a moral position, and caring enough about that position to get involved at a greater level...which is where faith comes from.

Wait. I have a moral position that I care enough about that I get further involved, and suddenly I have faith in the Great Pumpkin? I see absolutely no connection.

[Foxton]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

2. Many evangelicals and athiests at the extremes mess up today's discussion...by saying its science or nothing, its abstenance or screw over whoever you can.

Hey, psst, your straw is showing in your false dichotomy.

4. Most of the bible is relevant but usually put in as parables or lessons...but Jesus is the deal. He came late, could correct the message and as son of God, had the autority to do so.

As entertaining as it is to watch you all wax poetic about Jeebus, this is one of the most asinine statements about the figure that I have ever heard. If you could find two xtians who can agree on what the message of Jesus is in entirety, surely this shouldn't be so hard to do for a god, well then I have some ocean front property in Kansas to sell you. How incompetent is your deity? If his message was love they neighbor then he is an utter ****ing failure.

[huskyfan]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

anyway ... back to elections ...

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

How incompetent is your deity? If his message was love they neighbor then he is an utter ****ing failure.

Wow, you personified that perfectly. Here is a situation in which the term "irony" does apply literally.

[huskyfan]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

hey, how about that Romney? looks like a winner, huh?

(I got no room for intolerance - people's beliefs are people's beliefs - and unless they harm others, they should not be made fun of)