College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

[amherstblackbear]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

Poor Western Michigan. They win the CCHA Auto-bid and then get left out of the tourney...all the while Air Force gets a bid.

Oops.
Fixed. Swapping Ferris and Minnesota wasn't ideal, but swapping Denver for Western Michigan created a bit of a mess.

[Jaws]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

But it's also more expensive and harder to get there (Anaheim certainly was for someone on the east coast). I look at weather as being less a consideration when you get into early April. The other day it was warmer in the Northeast and Midwest than it was in Florida. If it's the middle of winter that's one thing, but going to a "warm weather city" by the time you get into spring isn't that big of an enticement to me. I think the NCAAs ought to stick to traditional northeast/midwest cities and leave it at that personally; give one fanbase a break most years by having it within driving distance for a fair amount of fans.

I"m with you. I'm from the midwest and I went to Anahiem and I'm going to Tampa. But if I had a choice, I wish it was in Boston, a great city to visit. Especially with the FF staying out East for two more years.

[lord k]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

It's the regional tournaments that stink. There are no fans at the games. Many fans hold out because they all like to go to the conference tourny at the end of the season. To add 2 more weekends of travel(regions/frozen 4) is just too expensive for most people so they skip the region and pray their team makes the Frozen 4.

The players play in packed rinks all year long then they get on the big stage and there are no fans there.

The whole national tournament should be 8 teams, 1 weekend, 1 site. Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Win 3 games and you are the champion.
Sure less teams get in but does it really matter. It puts more emphasis on doing well in the regular season.

The only other option would be to have the top seeds host the regional and keep the same system.

[Jaws]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

Going to a "warm weather city" once a decade doesn't seem like that big of deal to me. Given that the F4 requireds an NHL sized (18k+) you are down to maybe 30 or 35 arenas where it can be held (unless you want to go with the football stadium again). Cut out anything that isn't in the US hockey footprint and you have maybe 15 locations that will work: Boston, NYC area, Philly, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Denver, St. Paul, Chicago would be the best. Also have Buffalo, Columbus, St. Louis, Washington DC, Nashville, Milwaukee which would work but either push the geographic bound or are not the most exciting locations for non-hockey activities on a regular basis.

Good breakdown of possible cities. By all means, lets go to New York and Chicago. Milwaukee has done a good job with the 2 FF's they have had. Columbus would be okay if they play it downtown and not at the Schott.

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

A agree something is wrong. Personally, I will never attend another NCAA tournament after Air Force was sent to Worcester in 2008 when there was a Regional at the World Arena here in the Springs (Especially considering the #4 seed wound up winning it.)

The # 4 seeds are basically at the mercy of how the top teams' locations/matchups shake out. I don't think they would ever go out of their way to accomodate a # 4 seed. In 2010, RIT got real lucky how it worked out while in 2008, Air Force certainly did not. I don't believe either was on purpose.

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

I like the idea of not starting the regular season until November, which would push conference play until after football ends the first week of Dec., and the playoffs until after bouncyball is over and everyone looks around for something else to follow (for me its college baseball, but that may not be for everyone).

That may push things too far into the Spring sports season. I thought I had read somewhere that there are NCAA rules about the earliest and latest each season's sports can be played. I'm guessing hockey is already pushing the limit on that.

[Caustic Undertow]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

The purpose of my rather long OP was to illustrate the problem that the current system presents. And yes, that is in large part to start discussion, which people have provided. There are, however, some potential solutions.

http://www.collegehockeyprospective....chael-spath-2/
Michael Spath cooked this one up. I disagree with it for a lot of reasons, but it is reasonably well-thought and intriguing.

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.ph...ge-the-Tourney
This thread is the conversation we had about this issue last year, and is I think one of the best debate threads I've ever seen on this board. Alton and I were two of the leading promoters of a home site system, my version of which I will now briefly sum up:

Top 8 seeds host the first round games in their building. I now believe the best option is for it to be a one-game round, with the games spread over the weekend. You'd get two games (staggered starts) on Friday, four on Saturday, two on Sunday, or some other combination. Games can be moved slightly to avoid arena conflicts.

The second round takes place the next weekend at the home sites of the top 4 remaining seeds. This replaces the bye week before the Frozen Four; makes travel tricky, but I think it's worth the sacrifice. The winners obviously advance.

Simple. Home arenas, guaranteed attendance. Home games are earned by having higher seeds. The atmosphere of each game is incredible. Ticket sales are still going to be as good or better than the current system.

It would work. It would be easy to implement. It would be outstanding, and it would be fair. And what it lacks in multi-game-series drama, it gains in anything-can-happen thrills.

All I know is that I've been to four "home" NCAA tournament games at Yost. Michigan was the lower seed in three of them, so it was grossly unfair. But they were the most fun I've ever had at a hockey game by a wide margin. And it simply can't happen properly in the current system.

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

Thumbing your nose? I'd think Tampa and Anaheim would be enticing locations from a weather standpoint, especially for hockey fans who are generally in cold weather cities. A mini-vacation and a hockey tournament sounds like a good deal, not thumbing their nose.

But haven't Anaheim and now Tampa proven that this thinking didn't play out as planned? Attendance in Anaheim was awful, as we all remember. And from the looks of it, Tampa may be the first in a long time that didn't actually sell out, not counting Detroit (they were still advertising ticket sales this weekend at the AHA tournament). Add to that the complete lack of "College Hockey Atmosphere" in these cities and the Zero chance of anyone driving in at the last minute for "secondary market" (i.e. scalper) tickets, and you have a stale, uninspired event. But hey, at least it's warm!

[Eph72]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

It's the regional tournaments that stink. There are no fans at the games. Many fans hold out because they all like to go to the conference tourny at the end of the season. ...

The regional tournament structure may well have problems, but I don't think its because the conference championships are so well supported.

Here are the reported attendance figures for the CCHA, ECAC and AHA conference finals this past weekend.

Reported attendance for the Air Force/ RIT game (in Rochester!) at the Blue Cross Arena was 2,433. Capacity is 11,200.

Reported attendance for the Harvard/Union game at Boardwalk Hall was 4,131. Capacity is 11,200.

Reported attendance for the Western Michigan/ Michigan game (in Detroit, Michigan!) at the Joe Louis Arena was 10,421. Capacity is over 20,000.

In every case reported attendance was almost certainly greatly exaggerated by reason of no-shows (even if figures do accurately reflect paid ticket sales).

I think there is also a major problem with (some of) the conference tournaments, but I'm an ECAC fan so perhaps its understandable.

[Caustic Undertow]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

Here's what the first round could look like this year, using match ups already made for regionals.

Friday, March 23

7pm EDT, at the Achilles Center in Schenectady:
Union vs. Michigan State

8pm, CDT, at the Amsoil Arena in Duluth:
UMD vs. Maine

Saturday, March 24

1pm EDT, at the Conte Forum in Chestnut Hill:
BC vs. Air Force

3pm CDT, at the Ralph Englestad Arena in Grand Forks:
North Dakota vs. Western Michigan

7pm, EDT, at Yost Ice Arena in Ann Arbor:
Michigan vs. Cornell

8pm, CDT, at Mariucci Arena in Minneapolis:
Minnesota vs. Boston University

Sunday, March 25

2pm, EDT, at Ewigleben Arena in Big Rapids:
Ferris State vs. Denver

4pm, EDT, at the Goggin Ice Center in Oxford:
Miami vs. Lowell

These game times are obviously flexible. All 8 games could be played Friday and Saturday if that worked better logistically. The point is that, instead of few people seeing a couple of great games in Green Bay, more people will see Michigan-Cornell in Ann Arbor (a repeat of the 1991 matchup that launched Yost as a college hockey hotbed) and Ferris-Denver in Big Rapids. They won't get a huge number of fans (due to low capacity), but all the fans there will care. Even the best attended region, likely St. Paul, won't be hurting as both North Dakota and Minnesota would host intense matchups at their sparkling home facilities.

[JF_Gophers]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

But haven't Anaheim and now Tampa proven that this thinking didn't play out as planned? Attendance in Anaheim was awful, as we all remember. And from the looks of it, Tampa may be the first in a long time that didn't actually sell out, not counting Detroit (they were still advertising ticket sales this weekend at the AHA tournament). Add to that the complete lack of "College Hockey Atmosphere" in these cities and the Zero chance of anyone driving in at the last minute for "secondary market" (i.e. scalper) tickets, and you have a stale, uninspired event. But hey, at least it's warm!

I wasn't condoning they do it all the time. I was simply stating that the selection of these cities had nothing to do with sticking it to their sports fan base.

[JF_Gophers]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

These game times are obviously flexible. All 8 games could be played Friday and Saturday if that worked better logistically. The point is that, instead of few people seeing a couple of great games in Green Bay, more people will see Michigan-Cornell in Ann Arbor (a repeat of the 1991 matchup that launched Yost as a college hockey hotbed) and Ferris-Denver in Big Rapids. They won't get a huge number of fans (due to low capacity), but all the fans there will care. Even the best attended region, likely St. Paul, won't be hurting as both North Dakota and Minnesota would host intense matchups at their sparkling home facilities.

Actually Minnesota would be hurt by hosting at home. Capacity is only 10k at Mariucci. They could sell a lot more seats if played at the Xcel Energy Center.

North Dakota would probably be OK with 12k at home. I am not sure how many they would get being the sole host at the X.

[LTsatch]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

I grew up 15 minutes from BPT, it's not NYC area. That's like saying Springfield, MA is Boston area.

Also could someone explain to me having the NE regional final at 8:00 EST while the Western is at 5:00? It would seem so easy to switch the 2 and have them both start at 5 locally.

I guess that all the train stations in every city between New Haven and NYC are there for people to get to Stamford I picked up the tix today and it was actually $60 per seat for all three games. That's cheaper than some college regular season prices.

[Caustic Undertow]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

Actually Minnesota would be hurt by hosting at home. Capacity is only 10k at Mariucci. They could sell a lot more seats if played at the Xcel Energy Center.

North Dakota would probably be OK with 12k at home. I am not sure how many they would get being the sole host at the X.

10,000 Minnesota fans vs. 15-20k split fans, yes, that would reduce capacity--but you're forgetting that you are turning one 19,000 seat location into 2 10k + locations that are as close (Minnie) or much closer (NoDak) to their fan bases. I'm pretty sure both would sell out, and be much louder than your standard regular season game. So you have 22,000 home fans there. The X cannot physically match that--and this is a best-case home regional we're talking about.

[Eph72]

Re: College Hockey's Playoff Problem.

I kinda like it. Atmosphere would be great. I suppose a minor tweak might be that a school like Union, playing in a small building, could consider moving the game to a bigger local arena (for example, Times Union Center) if they wanted to...

Here's what the first round could look like this year, using match ups already made for regionals.

Friday, March 23

7pm EDT, at the Achilles Center in Schenectady:
Union vs. Michigan State

8pm, CDT, at the Amsoil Arena in Duluth:
UMD vs. Maine

Saturday, March 24

1pm EDT, at the Conte Forum in Chestnut Hill:
BC vs. Air Force

3pm CDT, at the Ralph Englestad Arena in Grand Forks:
North Dakota vs. Western Michigan

7pm, EDT, at Yost Ice Arena in Ann Arbor:
Michigan vs. Cornell

8pm, CDT, at Mariucci Arena in Minneapolis:
Minnesota vs. Boston University

Sunday, March 25

2pm, EDT, at Ewigleben Arena in Big Rapids:
Ferris State vs. Denver

4pm, EDT, at the Goggin Ice Center in Oxford:
Miami vs. Lowell

These game times are obviously flexible. All 8 games could be played Friday and Saturday if that worked better logistically. The point is that, instead of few people seeing a couple of great games in Green Bay, more people will see Michigan-Cornell in Ann Arbor (a repeat of the 1991 matchup that launched Yost as a college hockey hotbed) and Ferris-Denver in Big Rapids. They won't get a huge number of fans (due to low capacity), but all the fans there will care. Even the best attended region, likely St. Paul, won't be hurting as both North Dakota and Minnesota would host intense matchups at their sparkling home facilities.