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  • Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

    Please continue.
    Cornell University
    National Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

  • #2
    Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

    We're still talking about this? Seriously?
    BigPieps: Nathan > few million others
    BigPieps: Once again, Nathan speaks the truth.
    GreatLakerMohawk: Bill Smith is a ******.
    GreatLakerMohawk: Why do you question Nathan? He knows what's up. F-cking listen already.
    GreatLakerMohawk: Nathan appears to be the only smart one here. Again.

    Join us for Wild Discussion at Hockey Wilderness.

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    • #3
      Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

      Originally posted by Nathan View Post
      We're still talking about this? Seriously?
      GWOT? We're still fighting it, right?
      Cornell University
      National Champion 1967, 1970
      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        GWOT? We're still fighting it, right?
        Are we? Really?
        BigPieps: Nathan > few million others
        BigPieps: Once again, Nathan speaks the truth.
        GreatLakerMohawk: Bill Smith is a ******.
        GreatLakerMohawk: Why do you question Nathan? He knows what's up. F-cking listen already.
        GreatLakerMohawk: Nathan appears to be the only smart one here. Again.

        Join us for Wild Discussion at Hockey Wilderness.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

          Originally posted by Nathan View Post
          Are we? Really?
          Afghanis, Pakistanis, coalition troops, US taxpayers, and anybody who waits in line at the airport thinks so.

          Edit: I haven't followed many of these links, but this guy has aggregated the most recent news, considering CNN and Fox are too busy with MJ's funeral to cover such minor matters.
          Last edited by Kepler; 07-13-2009, 01:05 PM.
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

            Long Term debate:
            Isolationism vs. World's Cop. Wish I knew the answer. However, if I was in charge.....

            I would call Bejing and ask them if they want a puppet state above the 38th parallel and below Manchuria. If they said yes, I say, I'm not stopping you as long as you stay on your side of the line. The way I figure it, about 100 people have to disappear and all will be copacetic in Korea.

            I don't think anyone wants a crazy nuke capable country sitting just south of my border and abutting major trading partners. Very bad for the bottom line, you know.

            As to Al Qaeda, keep them running and let them discredit themselves. Try not to make Osama a martyr. Hopefully a run of spectacular failures will eventuallty cause this movement to collapse upon itself. We're not going to get rid of radical Islam by ourselves. They mullahs will have to do that.

            Is Democracy for everyone? Do many care, or will the benevolent despot work as long as there is a decent standard of living? Democracy works for us and for many other countries, but is it for everyone?
            CCT '77 & '78
            4 kids
            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
            - Benjamin Franklin

            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

              Originally posted by joecct View Post
              Is Democracy for everyone? Do many care, or will the benevolent despot work as long as there is a decent standard of living? Democracy works for us and for many other countries, but is it for everyone?
              To me, the question isn't as much is it for everyone, as much as is it for everyone right now? In theory a government where all voices are heard is for everyone regardless of the specific form it takes (i.e. number of branches, all of those details). But people also aren't ready overnight, regardless of how much one tries to impose it on people; people needs to live and learn, and have some experiments with dispersing power too broadly or concentrating it too closely to know why those are bad ideas so they don't do it again. I mean, look at England from the Magna Carta almost 800 years ago to the full representation of the last century or so and note how many hiccups and refinements it takes.

              Cornell '04, Stanford '06


              KDR

              Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
              iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
              gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
              Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
              Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
              TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
              DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

              Test to see if I can add this.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                Originally posted by French Rage View Post
                To me, the question isn't as much is it for everyone, as much as is it for everyone right now? In theory a government where all voices are heard is for everyone regardless of the specific form it takes (i.e. number of branches, all of those details). But people also aren't ready overnight, regardless of how much one tries to impose it on people; people needs to live and learn, and have some experiments with dispersing power too broadly or concentrating it too closely to know why those are bad ideas so they don't do it again. I mean, look at England from the Magna Carta almost 800 years ago to the full representation of the last century or so and note how many hiccups and refinements it takes.
                Excatly, so why do we want the full blown 21st Century version for the world, when government Mark 13 may be the better solution?
                CCT '77 & '78
                4 kids
                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                - Benjamin Franklin

                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                  Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  Afghanis, Pakistanis, coalition troops, US taxpayers, and anybody who waits in line at the airport thinks so.

                  Edit: I haven't followed many of these links, but this guy has aggregated the most recent news, considering CNN and Fox are too busy with MJ's funeral to cover such minor matters.
                  I don't care about the war on terror. I don't care about the middle east or korea or muslim extremists. I don't care about TSA lines or new checkpoints for crossing into Canada.
                  BigPieps: Nathan > few million others
                  BigPieps: Once again, Nathan speaks the truth.
                  GreatLakerMohawk: Bill Smith is a ******.
                  GreatLakerMohawk: Why do you question Nathan? He knows what's up. F-cking listen already.
                  GreatLakerMohawk: Nathan appears to be the only smart one here. Again.

                  Join us for Wild Discussion at Hockey Wilderness.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                    Originally posted by French Rage View Post
                    To me, the question isn't as much is it for everyone, as much as is it for everyone right now? In theory a government where all voices are heard is for everyone regardless of the specific form it takes (i.e. number of branches, all of those details). But people also aren't ready overnight, regardless of how much one tries to impose it on people; people needs to live and learn, and have some experiments with dispersing power too broadly or concentrating it too closely to know why those are bad ideas so they don't do it again. I mean, look at England from the Magna Carta almost 800 years ago to the full representation of the last century or so and note how many hiccups and refinements it takes.
                    And we had the opportunity to start anew (a la Japanese manufacturing after WWII) so we bypassed some of the evolution. But, if we look at Europe now, is that us in 50 years? 100 years?
                    I believe in life, and I believe in love, but the world in which I live in keeps trying to prove me wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                      Originally posted by joecct View Post
                      Long Term debate:
                      Isolationism vs. World's Cop. Wish I knew the answer. However, if I was in charge.....

                      I would call Bejing and ask them if they want a puppet state above the 38th parallel and below Manchuria. If they said yes, I say, I'm not stopping you as long as you stay on your side of the line. The way I figure it, about 100 people have to disappear and all will be copacetic in Korea.
                      Ideally, the North Koreans would do it themselves. To be honest it wouldn't even take an invasion -- Beijing could probably get that result by making a handful of phone calls to the North Korean DOD. No General wants to lose his pension.

                      I don't think anyone wants a crazy nuke capable country sitting just south of my border and abutting major trading partners. Very bad for the bottom line, you know.
                      Wait, Mexico is getting the bomb?

                      As to Al Qaeda, keep them running and let them discredit themselves. Try not to make Osama a martyr. Hopefully a run of spectacular failures will eventuallty cause this movement to collapse upon itself. We're not going to get rid of radical Islam by ourselves. They mullahs will have to do that.
                      I think there's a lot of truth here. "Keep them running" needs to be balanced against the fact that every time a Tomahawk crashes Akmed's wedding, we turn another village of 25,000 into suicide bombers.

                      Is Democracy for everyone? Do many care, or will the benevolent despot work as long as there is a decent standard of living? Democracy works for us and for many other countries, but is it for everyone?
                      Democracy is a double-edged sword. Unless we do something about the Arab world wanting to kill us, real politic would dictate that we keep propping up the House of Saud and Mubarek against their own people. And a genuinely democratic Pakistan? Imagine Alabama with the bomb.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                        Originally posted by joecct View Post
                        Excatly, so why do we want the full blown 21st Century version for the world, when government Mark 13 may be the better solution?
                        Well, we have the experience of 200 years, along with several hundred more years borrowed from England, to know what works for us. We know we don't want any more kings or Lord Protectors, but we also know we need something a little more than the Articles of Confederation. But no one automatically knew that from the start, it took time to learn that. Early on a king making all of the decisions sounds nice, compared to wishy-washy legislatures who have to comprimise, but over time you learn why autocrats are bad and you also learn how to fine tune democratic governments to work for you (despite the usual complaints about Congress and the like).

                        I mean, take any third world countries where they've tried to set up a democracy and a year later you end up with a strongman or a coup taking power. It seems like a good idea there to a lot of people because now things will "get done". Of course, things rarely do, but frankly (and sadly) that has to happen a bunch before people learn. They need to have it drilled in that strongmen won't get the job done, and they need to rework their government until it works for them. Simply plopping people down into a system of government that society is not ready for will not produce the same results as elsewhere.

                        Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                        KDR

                        Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
                        iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
                        gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
                        Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
                        Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
                        TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
                        DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

                        Test to see if I can add this.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                          Originally posted by pirate View Post
                          And we had the opportunity to start anew (a la Japanese manufacturing after WWII) so we bypassed some of the evolution. But, if we look at Europe now, is that us in 50 years? 100 years?
                          I don't know if Europe is necessarily ahead of us. I mean, you could argue we've only been here for 200+ years whereas most of theose countries have had much longer, but I think that ignores what we inherited from England, which is in most ways our past too. And frankly England was usually taking the lead in less autocratic forms of government, so all in all I don't see Old Europe as ahead of us (not that they're necessarily behind us, I don't see this as quantifiably measurable).

                          Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                          KDR

                          Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
                          iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
                          gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
                          Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
                          Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
                          TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
                          DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

                          Test to see if I can add this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            Imagine Alabama with the bomb.
                            That's a job for the SEC.....
                            CCT '77 & '78
                            4 kids
                            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                            - Benjamin Franklin

                            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                              Originally posted by joecct View Post
                              That's a job for the SEC.....
                              I think he means Andre Smith in a few years.

                              Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                              KDR

                              Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
                              iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
                              gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
                              Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
                              Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
                              TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
                              DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

                              Test to see if I can add this.

                              Comment

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