Any New Womens' Hockey Programs on the Horizon?

[D2D]

Would like to get peoples' thoughts/comments on whether or not we are likely to see any further expansion of womens' college hockey over the near term (besides Syracuse). There just seems to be so many longstanding D1 mens' schools that have yet to make the jump to start a D1 womens' program that it makes you wonder. Minnesota and New England are pretty well saturated, but there are some huge holes in between:

Michigan
Michigan State
Northern Michigan
Michigan Tech
Lake Superior State
Notre Dame
Miami of Ohio
Bowling Green

...just to name a few. With the exception of Tech, all of these are CCHA schools.

Also a little further West:

Denver
Colorado College

Who might be the next school to announce a D1 Womens' program, or are we at a standstill for the foreseeable future?

[smitre]

Even with the costs associated with a hockey program I am surprised there are so many schools with established men's teams that do not also have a women's team because of the associated Title IX implications for their overall athletics programs.

[RStarr]

Also a little further West:

Denver
Colorado College
D, I would die and go to Heaven if either of these teams established a program (heck, I might even establish myself a single alliance! ;)). DU has a women's club team...and certainly enough talent in Colorado and the surrounding area's (California, Alaska) to make a competitive program. But with tTitle, I cant imagine that it would happen anytime soon. shrug.

[dave1381]

The school mentioned with the lowest likelihood of adding women's hockey is Colorado College, assuming a continuing lack of common sense from the NCAA.

They're a D-3 school that competes in D-I men's hockey of course, and D-I women's soccer. I believe both are grandfathered in allowing scholarships in both sports. I actually saw CC play Harvard in women's soccer 5+ years ago.

If CC were to add D-I women's hockey, I believe they would not be allowed to have scholarships. A scholarship men's program and a non-scholarship women's program would be a PR disaster I'm sure. And no, I don't think they can just drop scholarship women's soccer and add scholarship women's hockey.

[gojackets]

i know its d3 and not d1 but I heard St Scholastica will be taking their club team D3 in 09-10

[Ralph Baer]

The school mentioned with the lowest likelihood of adding women's hockey is Colorado College, assuming a continuing lack of common sense from the NCAA.

They're a D-3 school that competes in D-I men's hockey of course, and D-I women's soccer. I believe both are grandfathered in allowing scholarships in both sports. I actually saw CC play Harvard in women's soccer 5+ years ago.

If CC were to add D-I women's hockey, I believe they would not be allowed to have scholarships. A scholarship men's program and a non-scholarship women's program would be a PR disaster I'm sure. And no, I don't think they can just drop scholarship women's soccer and add scholarship women's hockey.

Not only would CC not be allowed to give scholarships, they wouldn't be allowed to have a team. A D-III school can only play up in one men's and one women's sport, not even considering the scholarship issue. If they were to give up the women's soccer team (and I have no idea if that has ever been considered), I also don't know if they could transfer their right to give scholarships to women's hockey.

[Hux]

The next teams to go D1 will come from the Atlantic Hockey ranks. The original plan for Holy Cross was to have a full D1 schedule this coming season, but that has apparently been ratcheted back some, as was the plan for Bentley to go D1 in the '09-'10 season since the on-campus facility is still in the planning stages.

[WildShawn]

Colorado and the surrounding area's (California, Alaska)

I think you need to work on your geography ;)

[D2D]

D, I would die and go to Heaven if either of these teams established a program (heck, I might even establish myself a single alliance! ;)). DU has a women's club team...and certainly enough talent in Colorado and the surrounding area's (California, Alaska) to make a competitive program. But with tTitle, I cant imagine that it would happen anytime soon. shrug.

I know there are some good players coming out of Alaska and I didn't even mention Alaska-Anchorage or the University of Alaska (Fairbanks) as possibilities due to travel and budgetary considerations. But if Denver were to go D1 they certainly would be the team located the furthest west and could draw players from the entire western U.S. including Alaska. Given CC's D3 predicament they would also have a monopoly of sorts within Colorado.

Even more puzzling to me however is why Michigan and Michigan State don't have womens' hockey. These are huge D1 schools with very rich mens' hockey traditions, located in one of the true hockey hotbed areas in the U.S. They are also close to the Toronto area where they could draw from as well. Anyone know what has held them back?

Also Notre Dame has done very well lately in mens hockey and they have the whole Chicago area in their backyard, and with their academic credentials could easily attract great players from all over, including Canada....

Maybe in another 10 years or so the landscape will look very different. As it is now the womens' game is just too concentrated geographically to attract much attention outside of MN/WI/New England.

[Ironman33]

I always feel the need to chime in on this issue, as I have in the past had inside knowledge on the CCHA schools and "reasons" why they will not add women's varsity hockey.

In 2002, Western Michigan announced they were adding a D-I women's team, only to backtrack three weeks later and whack the idea, and four other varsity programs. That is the closest thing to even be considered. About the same time MSU was "investigating" the option of adding one women's program (Hockey and Water Polo were targeted) and encouraging the club team to "be competitive" on a larger scale.

Once the investigation was done and the title IX compliance came out clean and the proce tag for start-up costs was $3-4million (renovation to arena, equipment costs, lost revenue for on campus arena events) and the projected operation budget to join the WCHA (the only real option and have 18 scholarships right away) was $1m per annum. There seemed to be no need to spend the money...

It was never a Ron Mason thing at MSU (although there were rumors that Red scraped the U-M idea), actually he was somewhat supportive from a distance. They just didn't see the need to spend $45,000 per student athlete per year. Sports like bowling, rugby and water polo are NCAA emerging sports and cost far less per player (in the $12-20,000 per year range) and the start-up for those is much cheaper. MSU and U_m have bowling alleys on campus and sufficient to excellent pools and fields. Both arenas would need significant work to add another varsity dressing room.

In a perfect world, MSU, U-M and ND would add teams and change the CHA to the CCHA-W and have a great conference with OSU, Mercyhurst, WSU, Niagara and Robert Morris. Excellent schools and easier travel and regionally competitive. I have been somewhat out of touch in the last three years with that situtation, but my guess would be MSU alums or U-M alums would have to push for it (by giving $$). I also will speculate that when one of the three goes all three will go together(that has been speculation for years). MSU alums with daughters that play hockey and have some $$ , Tom Anastos (CCHA commish and owner of a bunch of arenas in detroit/lansing), the older Millers (Kelly, I think) and a few others. That is how it will get done.

As far as other programs...BGSU, Lake St, Northern Michigan, Western Michigan. The CCHA/MAC schools don't have the big $$ and are more likely to drop men's sports. Lake St is a D-II school as is NMU and they could play in the NCHA as a D-III, which is more likely if they added.

If I had $$ to handicap, I think that NMU is most likely to add. They have an arena that is nice, new and has space for a varsity dressing room for a women's team, they have a travel partner in Finlandia and they could "play down" in D-III.

So that is my general take on the situation in the midwest...it really is a shame and I am a bit surprised that Tom Anastos hasn't pushed the AD's a bit more as he has their ear on a regular basis and he could be the perfect "champion" for this missing piece of the puzzle.

[DC78-82]

I think you need to work on your geography ;)

surrounding area's (California, Alaska) .

And grammar;)

[RStarr]

meh. I hate English...spelling, grammar, you name it...give me something scientific to do and I'm all over it. Give me a book to read and a paper to write and I'm gonna need Hux's bucket again.


I thought it would be obvious but I guess I need to spell it out for you all (no pun intended). Its a lot closer for a kid from California and a kid from Alaska to go to Denver than it is for them to go to Minnesota, or Ohio, or Boston. You regular East coasters consider Minnesota West....well us in Denver consider all of those places East. So......yeah, there's a lot of kids in Colorado, the surrounding area's, and WEST of Colorado that could make a competitive D1 team in Denver.

[gotice]

meh. I hate English...spelling, grammar, you name it...give me something scientific to do and I'm all over it. Give me a book to read and a paper to write and I'm gonna need Hux's bucket again.


I thought it would be obvious but I guess I need to spell it out for you all (no pun intended). Its a lot closer for a kid from California and a kid from Alaska to go to Denver than it is for them to go to Minnesota, or Ohio, or Boston. You regular East coasters consider Minnesota West....well us in Denver consider all of those places East. So......yeah, there's a lot of kids in Colorado, the surrounding area's, and WEST of Colorado that could make a competitive D1 team in Denver.

I understood the meaning behind your original post:D

Y'All can't forget TX, AZ, Utah, Montana, and NM as well. I think there are a few kids from those states that would possibly be able to compete at the DI level.

[vellnueve]

Wouldn't be surprised to see UMass-Amherst try it. They already have the facilities.

[binnyrus]

IMO there aren't enough D1 caliber players to put together too many more programs . . . unless even more players from Canada or Europe are recruited.

[Hux]

Wouldn't be surprised to see UMass-Amherst try it. They already have the facilities.

Don't hold your breath as they are already 10 years behind their projected "no later than" date. The state budget woes and Beacon Hill administrations determined to slash and cut as much as they could in the late 90's pretty much killed any chance UMass had of fielding a women's team. At this time 10 years ago there were some 30 plus varsity sports. A number of them got the axe, and the school is fully Title IX compliant, and has more women's varsity programs than men's.

[ARM]

I thought it would be obvious but I guess I need to spell it out for you all (no pun intended). Its a lot closer for a kid from California and a kid from Alaska to go to Denver than it is for them to go to Minnesota, or Ohio, or Boston.Denver is only ~ 100 miles closer to a city like Anchorage than Minneapolis is. When you are talking over 2,000 miles, that isn't that much. For prospects around Fairbanks, that difference is even less. Grand Forks is still the closest destination for players from Alaska, but that only helps if you can get a flight into Grand Forks without having to backtrack.

For a player from Alaska, all of these colleges are far away, and varying degrees of far don't matter all that much.

[gojackets]

Denver is only ~ 100 miles closer to a city like Anchorage than Minneapolis is. When you are talking over 2,000 miles, that isn't that much. For prospects around Fairbanks, that difference is even less. Grand Forks is still the closest destination for players from Alaska, but that only helps if you can get a flight into Grand Forks without having to backtrack.

For a player from Alaska, all of these colleges are far away, and varying degrees of far don't matter all that much.

not to nitpick, but its actually 3208 miles from Anchorage to Denver and 3166 to Minneapolis :D

[Hux]

not to nitpick, but its actually 3208 miles from Anchorage to Denver and 3166 to Minneapolis :D

The great thing about this board is that you learn something new every day! ;)

[ARM]

not to nitpick, but its actually 3208 miles from Anchorage to Denver and 3166 to Minneapolis :DI was talking distance "as the crow flies".