Jeff Jakaitis, Unfortunately overshadowed?

[Alton]

The NHL keeps track of the type of every shot (backhand, slap shot, snap shot, wrist shot, deflection, wraparound) and the distance. Hockey analyst Alan Ryder has developed a metric to separate the quality of a team's defense from the quality of a team's goaltending. Unfortunately, those numbers are not available for college games, so one can only go on impressions.

Just looking at Brown and Jakaitis, I think that the average shot faced by Jakaitis is a higher quality shot than the average shot faced by Brown, meaning that Jakaitis' higher save percentage is that much more impressive. Unfortunately, college hockey doesn't keep detailed enough statistics to prove or disprove my impression, so all I am left with is what I have seen and the imperfect statistics that are kept.

- Ryan Miller played on the best defensive team in the country (tops in scoring defense and penalty kill percentage ... There were no ... "his numbers are a product of his defense" arguments.

:eek:

Are you sure about that? I think there were a lot of "his numbers are a product of his defense" arguments, especially given that a mediocre goalie like Joe Blackburn had just managed to get on the All-American team playing behind that system a couple of years before.

[badgerhawk]

Looking over past years, to win as a goalie takes a Hurculean effort- I don't think Brown really stands a chance, either. So take a great (and I do belive he is) goalie on an average team, and there is no way Jakaitis going to be considered.

The year Miller won, he stood on his head a lot to get shut outs.

Really, IMHO, if a goalie wins the Hobey, it's more of a mark of the overall team D being the best of the best more than just the goalie. But forwards just have to score a lot. Remember when Brian Holzinger won, BGSU didn't even make the NCAA's.

It's a totally different measurement stick for goalies. Miller had a .950 SV, 1.32 GAA, plus 10 SO when he won in 2001.

If Brian Elliott couldn't win it last year, I don't think any goalie will win it this year either. 27-5-3 1.55 GAA .938 save % 8 SO

[Terrierbyassociation]

If Brian Elliott couldn't win it last year, I don't think any goalie will win it this year either. 27-5-3 1.55 GAA .938 save % 8 SO

Elliott missed some time, didn't he? I'd like to think he would have won if he hadn't gotten injured.

1. Goalies rarely win, they only win when they're so much better than all the other goalies and there's no Ryan Duncan guy.
2. The Hobey Baker is West-Biased because it is scoring biased and the best offenses are in the West.
3. Therefore Curry never had a chance.

[Craig P.]

I think the most likely non-goaltender winner is Hensick, but the door seems to be open to the goaltenders this year because there is simply not the same level of scoring there's been in the past.

[Terrierbyassociation]

I think the most likely non-goaltender winner is Hensick, but the door seems to be open to the goaltenders this year because there is simply not the same level of scoring there's been in the past.

I think Duncan has to be right up there with Hensick. Duncan might suffer from waiting until later in the season to explode on the national scene.

[Hammer]

you sure about that? I think there were a lot of "his numbers are a product of his defense" arguments, especially given that a mediocre goalie like Joe Blackburn had just managed to get on the All-American team playing behind that system a couple of years before.

Don't forget Chad Alban, too, before Joe Blackburn. His GAA was sub-2.00 for a year there, as well. In fact, there were 5 straight years with an MSU goaltender with a GAA under 2.00.

From hockeydb.com:

Chad Alban
1997-98: 31-4-5, 1.57, .926

Joe Blackburn
1998-99: 21-5-7, 1.55, sv% not listed
1999-00: 11-6-1, 2.17, sv% not listed

Ryan Miller
1999-00: 16-4-3, 1.36, sv% not listed
2000-01: 31-5-4, 1.32, .950
2001-02: 26-9-5, 1.77, .936

And, um, yes, there was plenty of talk about "product of the system". Somebody just wasn't paying attention.

[LSSUscor(an)]

Again, i haven't seen Curry play so i don't know who the better goalie is between him and Jakaitis. From what i've heard of Curry, he seems to be a great goaltender and i'd really like to seem him play. I have seen Brown play and in my opinion Jakaitis is the better goalie. My reasons are not because im bias(for the most part) but because of the way they both play or are forced to play. Notre Dame has a really good defense so Brown gets a lot of help and the shots he does see are not as high of quality as Jakaitis is faced with.

Jakaitis has to make a lot of great saves every game. I'd say the majority of shots he faces are quality shots that he has to come up big on. He's a small guy but he has excellent positioning. In the rare cases that he finds himself out of position he still seems to come out of no where to come up with the saves. Jakaitis has to play hard every game and he wins the majority of the games for the lakers. Most of the goals that get by Jakaitis are ones that he had no chance on. I can only remember one time this season when he let in one that he should of had. With that being said, i've seen some of the leagues and nations leading scorers come off the ice shaking their heads after being robbed by Jakaitis. On defense the lakers play 1 senior, 1 junior, and 4 freshmen every game. The defense is inexperienced and they have left Jakaitis out to dry quite a bit. The offense doesn't just play to get 2 goals. If anything they(along with the defense) take more chances to create offense because they know that Jakaitis will bail them out if they get caught up ice.

Also i just wanted to comment on your mention of Curry being a leader on his team. It sounded as if you were saying that Curry is a leader but Jakaitis is not one. I hope thats not what you meant to say because Jakaitis is a GREAT leader on and off the ice for the lakers. He wouldn't be an assistant captain if he wasn't a leader. He also has an impressive GPA, being named a CCHA scholar-athlete for the third straight year. Not to mention all the great things he does for the community. Just to mention a few, he's a member of the boys and girls club and he has worked for habitat for humanity. Like coach Roque said earlier this year when jakaitis won goaltender of the month, " he's a great goalie and an even better person".

[Hail_Lakers]

Just to mention a few, he's a member of the boys and girls club and he has worked for habitat for humanity

Jeff Goes downtown every tuesday and thursday to work with the kids in the boys and girls club and has skated and worked with kids on the ice a lot.

As far as on campus there is none a nicer guy to talk to. If you see him on the sidewalk he is more than willing to talk to you and see how things are going. He also participated in a program for one the RA's in the freshman female dorm in which case he sat down with the girls and explained all the rules and concepts of hockey, although reluctantly he even did the splits for the girls. Jakaitis is a stand up guy and I am sure he will go far in both hockey and in his career field, he is just that good all-around.

[MiamiHawkey]

after those two games last weekend, i can easily say that Jakaitis is BY FAR the best goaltender i've seen all year. he does deserve more recognition, and he is probably the most VALUABLE player to his team in the country.

[Terrierbyassociation]

after those two games last weekend, i can easily say that Jakaitis is BY FAR the best goaltender i've seen all year. he does deserve more recognition, and he is probably the most VALUABLE player to his team in the country.

Again, can you say he's the most valuable when without winning the CCHA championship he won't take his team to regionals when without Curry wouldn't even make regionals and is going to?

How valuable is someone if the end result to their season is the same with or without him, no NCAA game?

I don't have a problem with you saying you think Jakaitis is the best goalie in the country. I don't like you saying you know he's the best when you admit you haven't seen Curry play. Then you say well, you've seen Brown play and Jakaitis is better. Well, there's still Curry, there's still Goepfert, there are still lots of other guys.

I think Curry is the best goalie in the country, but do I know that as if it's a fact? I'm getting the vibe that you're telling me that Jakaitis IS the best goalie. That's just your opinion. At least I've seen a couple of ND games and think Curry is better than Brown. At least I have something to go on.

[brianvf]

Hobey Duncan?

[Laker-Blue]

There are a couple of things worth pointing out:

- Ryan Miller played on the best defensive team in the country (tops in scoring defense and penalty kill percentage ... just like Notre Dame this year), third-best offensive team in his conference (just like Notre Dame this year), and no one questioned him for it. There were no "he played for a great offensive team" or "his numbers are a product of his defense" arguments. Not saying that David Brown is having a Miller-like season, but I can't see how those arguments are valid now when they weren't back then.

- Lake State's offense does not hang Jakaitis out to dry. When he gives up 2 or goals or less, the Lakers are 14-3-2.

- This is somewhat reminiscent of 2004-2005 when BGSU fans were crying foul for Jordan Sigalet's lack of recognition, citing the greater number of shots he faced than anybody.

I have seen Jakaitis play, this season and others. I saw him down at MSU this year, and he wasn't even the best goaltender on his team that weekend. Pat Inglis totally outplayed him.

I don't mean any of this to disparage Jakaitis. He's an excellent goaltender, one of the best I've seen this year. But he was the difference between the Lakers finishing 8th instead of 10th, and unless he stays on fire and the Lakers win the CCHA tournament, he has no chance to win the Hobey.


Excellent comments and I completely agree!

[Laker-Blue]

See, it's a bit of a bias, you haven't seen Curry play, I haven't seen Jakaitis play. But I have a strong respect for Jakaitis, he must be a solid goalie to be putting up those kinds of numbers. For those who have followed Lake State all season, ignoring this past weekend where Jakaitis carried his team and faced a flurry of incredible shots, he leads the country in saves, with 1004 saves in less games than the rest of the top goalies, how many of them are high quality shots? A goalie can face 20 shots and make 18 incredible saves, whereas a goalie can face 50 shots and make 50 saves, but rarely be pressed to make an incredible save. Is Jakaitis facing 30+ incredible shots and making that many incredible saves? How good is Jakaitis' defense? Terrible? How aggressive is Jakaitis' offense? They're not very good, judging by their goals scored record, but is that because of a conservative gameplan or ineptness? Do they play a very conservative gameplan and try and score two goals and expect a win?

Also, Curry's defense is very over-rated. He bails them out time and time again. BU has only two good defensive defenseman, Schaeffer and Sullivan, the first pairing is solid. Gilroy is a solid two-way player, but he has given up many an odd man rush when he skates too far into the offensive zone. Gryba takes too many penalties, Strait is getting better, but he's also only a freshman.

I don't know if you're speaking out of your *** because of bias, ignorance, or a combination of the two. Curry has to play his butt off just to get ties. 0-0 ties. AGAINST LOWELL! So unless Jakaitis is a goal scorer, and there is something I don't know about him, I don't know how he could always win with BU's talent. And while Lake State might not have as much talent on paper as ND or BU, you can't say that BU has great players and Lake State doesn't, maybe BU has more good players than Lake State, but there have been many times where only Curry has shown up on the whole team. BU doesn't have any great players right now besides Curry, and the forwards have really underperformed their talent.

It feels like you think this is a comparison just between Brown and Jakaitis. Your arguments might have weight against Brown, I don't believe they do, but they have significantly more merit than comparing Jakaitis to Curry.


Edit: Also, if you're going to make arguments like your last post, Laker Blue, which I didn't see, post Curry's stats also. And, the Hobey is supposed to be for this year, not an award to reward a great career, just this season. The Hobey also has to do with leadership, and Curry is a leader on the ice for the Terriers with Sean Sullivan and Kenny Roche.

Curry:
04/05 05/06 06/07
GAA: 1.97 2.24 1.84
SV: .923 .918 .934


Excellent Numbers for Curry and I do not beleive any of the 3 netminders will be winning the Hobey. I ment no slight to Curry as I am sure he is to BU as to what JJ is to LSSU. I am just looking for the recognition JJ deserves as a Leader (Assitant Captain), Player (Top 5 in the Country) on a team that finished 8th in thier league, Class Room (3.55) and Community (accomplishments to numerous to mention).

JJ seems to get lost in the Shuffle of the CCHA because ND is #1 in the CCHA and the Country and plays on what appears to be a more talented team with very different defensive style.

Once again my intent to tought JJ not demean Curry or anyone else.

[Swoop]

I do not want to compare JJ with Brown or Curry. I have seen Brown and Curry this year, but only on TV, and I am not sure if I can appreciate their performances as well.

However, JJ is the real deal. Even when Miami swept the Lakers earlier this season, he was amazing. The kid has everything! He has vision, awareness, positioning, quickness, reflexes, technique, what else... I don't know, but he has it, and even some luck to go with it.

He has the ability to stretch accross the goal to make the impossible save, and even more important, he has the ability to get up right after that and make the follow-up save on the rebound (if there is a rebound).

The shots he faces are hardly unscreened backhanders from the blue line.

The only thing I would criticize is that he may be a bit quick to go down, which may hurt his game at the next level.

[SmartAxe]

Excellent Numbers for Curry and I do not beleive any of the 3 netminders will be winning the Hobey. I ment no slight to Curry as I am sure he is to BU as to what JJ is to LSSU. I am just looking for the recognition JJ deserves as a Leader (Assitant Captain), Player (Top 5 in the Country) on a team that finished 8th in thier league, Class Room (3.55) and Community (accomplishments to numerous to mention).

JJ seems to get lost in the Shuffle of the CCHA because ND is #1 in the CCHA and the Country and plays on what appears to be a more talented team with very different defensive style.

Once again my intent to tought JJ not demean Curry or anyone else.


FINALLY, someone makes a point to bring the conversation back to the point of the thread's title...

Terrierbyassociation, there shouldn't have been any negative vibe against Curry whatsoever. He sounds like a heck of a team leader and goaltender and a huge reason for his team's success. But, Curry IS in the running, getting the press AND actual consideration for the Hobey.

I think the point of the thread & it's intentions by the person that started it, is that Jakaitis is without question, one of the top college netminders in the country and consistantly has been all 4 years of his career. His classroom work combined with career accomplishments & stats back up that statement.
The thread asks why/is he being overlooked for the Hobey? I think the answer is yes. The question of who should actually walk away with the hardware is a totally different question in itself, but when it comes down to national consideration & the hype associated with it, there is no question that Jeff Jakaitis should be in the top 10.

[sm3pk]

I just hope all the top goalies are getting looked at closely by the pros.Hobey is great but getting to the pros will be much better for all the goalies.

[MSYooper]

He also participated in a program for one the RA's in the freshman female dorm in which case he sat down with the girls and explained all the rules and concepts of hockey, although reluctantly he even did the splits for the girls.Tough duty, but someone has to do it. Stupid me-- I agree to volunteer gigs such as Xmas caroling at a senior center, where we got sworn at by some disoriented woman. The "explain the concepts of hockey to freshman girls" angle-- clever and creative.

(Actually, if what Jeff J. does is indeed true, good for him and all he encounters!j)

[kfish]

Some words from Jackson and Roque about Jakaitis and Brown. As pointed out before, they're both great goalies and deserve recognition (along with Curry, Terrior...) for what they bring to their teams. I copied the following from College Hockey News :

Jakaitis, a senior, has been Lake Superior's anchor for much of his career. Both Jackson and Lake Superior coach Jim Roque said the netminder doesn't get the recognition outside of the conference that he deserves.

"He's been great for us for a long time," Roque said. "He's given us a chance to win games a lot of nights when maybe we shouldn't. Obviously this year I think we've gotten a little better, so there have been nights where we've been able to score some goals and take some stress off him, too. But he's been fabulous for a long, long time here at Lake Superior."

Jackson said he didn't know what to expect from Brown when took over as coach last season because Brown was inconsistent in his sophomore year.

"David Brown, I'm extremely proud of," Jackson said. "I think that he's really come a long way in his mental approach to the game, and he's gained a lot of humility along the way. The two key things that have allowed him to have this type of a season are his mental toughness and also learning that it's better to be humble and to recognize what his teammates contribute. I think maybe those are things that he wrestled with early in his career, and he's really matured in a great way."

[Hail_Lakers]

And it Happened, Jakaitis was left out of the top 10 crushing the little city of Sault Ste Marie who tried to help him get recognition by producing over 60,000 votes. But we must move on and a win against notre dame will just prove them wrong even more.

[wolverineTrumpet]

I'm surprisied Jakaitis didn't make it as a finalist. I guess the fan voting doesn't count for much.

My comment before seeing the top 10 was going to be that Jakaitis deserves to make the 10, but won't make top 3 or win the award. Guess I was wrong on the top 10.

I agree on proving people wrong though, good luck to the Lakers...I'd love to LSSU win CCHA tourney (even if it means Michigan not winning).