What's Up with Brown?

[dayglo]

I was quite surprised to learn that Brown has an 0-7-0 record. Granted, the scores of most of the games were close, and that they tend to be a stronger 2nd-half team, but still . . . It's hard to believe our (dartmouth's) old nemesis could start out like that.

[Hux]

Digit says "Lose early to win late." She will have them all on the same page by the new year, and then they will get on a roll.

[Redhead'sDad]

Digit has a group of talented young players... with emphasis on young. Seven freshmen, I believe. I think they will get better over time, as Hux has previously observed... also, Brown has been without transfer Strassman from BC.

BTW, for anyone with younger players, I believe there is a skatearound-autographs-photo op with the team on Saturday following the Dartmouth game. Wonderful opportunity for girls to see a game and meet some great players. That's Saturday, November 18, with a 4 p.m. gametime.

[camman15]

Digit says "Lose early to win late." She will have them all on the same page by the new year, and then they will get on a roll.

That idea of lose early to win late can work with veteran teams, but with a young team?, I'm not so sure,.....this must be the slowest start a Brown team has had in some time and it'll take a monumental coaching job to get this team's psyche and confidence where it has be in order to compete and beat the best teams in the ECAC,.....

This past weekend "Bruno" got paddled pretty good,.....now, I have to wonder with just 1 win in 12 games, how can ANY coach turn this thing around,.....adversity brings out the best and the worst in those involved, and it can't be easy dealing with the losses that are piling up quicker than a December snowfall in International Falls, MN,.....

[ref11]

I think Brown’s challenge is not unique. They are competing against up and coming programs with money. Take BC for example: A well regarded academic institution that can offer scholarship money. Brown can only offer financial assistance. With the growth in Women’s hockey (which is good) and more choices to be made, Ivy’s like Brown will have a tough time competing at the top level for the long run. Schools like UNH and BC will spend more time in the frozen 4 than any IVY will.

Having said that, I too am surprised they haven't posted a couple of wins.:cool:

[Big Green Fan]

I think that it's about time that the Ivies change their policy and start to hand out sport scholarships too. I think that they can do that without jeopardizing their "academics" which they are concerned about. There are a lot of intelligent students who would accept a scholarship to one of the Ivy Schools.

[dogskate]

I think that it's about time that the Ivies change their policy and start to hand out sport scholarships too. I think that they can do that without jeopardizing their "academics" which they are concerned about. There are a lot of intelligent students who would accept a scholarship to one of the Ivy Schools.

I agree with you that there are a lot of intelligent athletes who would, and do, accept financial aid to attend Ivy Schools.However, to award financial aid specifically for athletic merit would counter hundreds of years of tradition and philosophy at these schools. They do compete pretty well nationally in D-1 in lots of sports. As for Hockey, I would mention that Harvard and Cornell continue to be quite competitive year after year on the men's side while Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown, and even Princeton have been competitive nationally on the womens' side. from reading box scores it seems to me that Cornell may be about to surprise some people as well. It would be a shame if a really bright, great hockey player who wanted to attend an Ivy was unable to because of money. I think the reality is that most players who would want to attend an Ivy can't because of academics. Money is available in a variety of forms from grants and loans to work programs. I think we must look elsewhere for the cause of Brown's difficulties (assuming they are real). I have heard that the number of Ivy academically eligible D-1 prospects from last year's and this year's senior classes in the US has been sparse. I would also say that I think the athletic talent has paled in comparison to the 86 and 87 birth years.

[dave1381]

However, to award financial aid specifically for athletic merit would counter hundreds of years of tradition and philosophy at these schools.
Right, plus there's the more recent tradition of not awarding merit aid to any undergraduate. If the Ivies started handing out athletic scholarships, you can guarantee the rest of the student body will feel entitled to a handout too.

[Hux]

I think Brown’s challenge is not unique. They are competing against up and coming programs with money. Take BC for example: A well regarded academic institution that can offer scholarship money. Brown can only offer financial assistance. With the growth in Women’s hockey (which is good) and more choices to be made, Ivy’s like Brown will have a tough time competing at the top level for the long run. Schools like UNH and BC will spend more time in the frozen 4 than any IVY will.

Having said that, I too am surprised they haven't posted a couple of wins.:cool:

All it takes is one good season, and a trip to the FF, or the playoffs and girls will be clamoring to go to Brown once again. The Ivy schools may not be able to get the depth of players that the scholarships schools have, but they still attract the top players.

In the case of Brown, I think that Digit's reputation might scare some folks off. She is certainly intense and demanding, but she is also a brilliant coach, and those that do play for her adore her. It could also be that Brown may not have the recruiting budget of some of the other schools, or their admissions might be a little more restrictive.

[hockeytalk]

and those that do play for her adore her. .

Really?:confused:

[ref11]

I think the reality is that most players who would want to attend an Ivy can't because of academics. .

agree

Money is available in a variety of forms from grants and loans to work programs. .

True, but they are very stingy (in my experience) in giving aid. I love the fact that they view your 401(K) contributions as discretionary money that you could send to them. Fund your retirement or pay tuition. Too bad institutions with billions in endowments are not looking for ways to make their tuition comparable with state schools instead of always being among the highest priced schools.

I love Providence, think it is a great draw to prospective student athletes. Still think Digit is going to have her hands full if she is an o-fer on wins by year end.:cool:

[whfan]

agree



True, but they are very stingy (in my experience) in giving aid. I love the fact that they view your 401(K) contributions as discretionary money that you could send to them. Fund your retirement or pay tuition. Too bad institutions with billions in endowments are not looking for ways to make their tuition comparable with state schools instead of always being among the highest priced schools.

:

I agree with you ref. If anyone thinks that the Ivies are going to make it inexpensive, or even affordable in a real world way to attend their school, then all I can say is fill out the financial aid application and prepare to be shocked. And despite what some may say, they do look at retirement savings as money that is up for grabs.

As ref says, with the almost obscene amount of endowment money available to these schools, the least they could do is stop trying to make their schools as places for the wealthy only , and make tuition more competitive/affordable to folks who don't happen to be rich. (but who still happen to have bright, motivated sons and daughters who would do well at an Ivy).

[dave1381]

As ref says, with the almost obscene amount of endowment money available to these schools, the least they could do is stop trying to make their schools as places for the wealthy only , and make tuition more competitive/affordable to folks who don't happen to be rich. (but who still happen to have bright, motivated sons and daughters who would do well at an Ivy).
Well they do devote a lot of money to aid. For instance:
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2006/03/30-finaid.html

I think you can make a fair argument that Ivies are a best deal for families in the highest and lowest income brackets, and the middle-class gets kind of screwed, but you cannot claim that Ivies are a place for the wealthy only.

[ref11]

I think you can make a fair argument that Ivies are a best deal for families in the highest and lowest income brackets, and the middle-class gets kind of screwed, but you cannot claim that Ivies are a place for the wealthy only.

Agree

The wealthy write a tuition check like we make a car payment. The under 75K income bracket is well served by financial aid. The middle class is like the great "doughnut hole".

What these IVY's need is for some wealth alums to fund a scholarship pool earmarked for womens athletic's / hockey. Could help Digit with her recruiting.:cool:

[whfan]

I think you can make a fair argument that Ivies are a best deal for families in the highest and lowest income brackets, and the middle-class gets kind of screwed, but you cannot claim that Ivies are a place for the wealthy only.

Fair enough - I imagine you can guess where I fall in income wise....sigh:(

[lordsontheboards]

All it takes is one good season, and a trip to the FF, or the playoffs and girls will be clamoring to go to Brown once again. The Ivy schools may not be able to get the depth of players that the scholarships schools have, but they still attract the top players.

In the case of Brown, I think that Digit's reputation might scare some folks off. She is certainly intense and demanding, but she is also a brilliant coach, and those that do play for her adore her. It could also be that Brown may not have the recruiting budget of some of the other schools, or their admissions might be a little more restrictive.


That would be the old school train of thought. The new world of hockey say's that the Girls coaching jobs are very attractive to some highly respectable Men's coaches. Recruiting is the name of the game today. Gigit is having a hard time competing against the UNH's, BC's and BU's of the world.

[sk8happy]

All it takes is one good season, and a trip to the FF, or the playoffs and girls will be clamoring to go to Brown once again. The Ivy schools may not be able to get the depth of players that the scholarships schools have, but they still attract the top players.



I'd agree with Lord's point...this is the "yesterdays" vision, not today's or tomorrow's. I'd also add that what Hux should of written was that the Ivies still "attract SOME of the top players." And of late, certainly not the majority.
Take the top Ontario kids from last years Under 18 program (which was loaded) and you'll find they're going everywhere BUT the Ivies: UNH, Wisconsin, Mercyhurst, SLU, Minnesota, UMD.
Even in the US pool, I'm not seeing the majority of elite players going Ivy with a few exceptions. Now some of those kids have admissions as a road block. Still, I'm hearing of more and more kids that were being chased hard by the Ivies- that have opted for the scholarship route.

[Jonesy]

I'd agree with Lord's point...this is the "yesterdays" vision, not today's or tomorrow's. I'd also add that what Hux should of written was that the Ivies still "attract SOME of the top players." And of late, certainly not the majority.
Take the top Ontario kids from last years Under 18 program (which was loaded) and you'll find they're going everywhere BUT the Ivies: UNH, Wisconsin, Mercyhurst, SLU, Minnesota, UMD.
Even in the US pool, I'm not seeing the majority of elite players going Ivy with a few exceptions. Now some of those kids have admissions as a road block. Still, I'm hearing of more and more kids that were being chased hard by the Ivies- that have opted for the scholarship route.
That's not completely true Kessler at Harvard and Bowman at Dartmouth were a part of the U18 that Agosta was on.

[EdSasha]

That's not completely true Kessler at Harvard and Bowman at Dartmouth were a part of the U18 that Agosta was on.

Endicott at Princeton and Male at Brown were also 2005 U18 participants.

[sk8happy]

That's not completely true Kessler at Harvard and Bowman at Dartmouth were a part of the U18 that Agosta was on.

You're right however the majority of last years team is heading to college next fall and clearly the very best of that team ( Kessler not included ) like Agosta, Deluce, Wakefield, Johnson, Bendus, Birchard apparently aren't going Ivy.
That's a lot of incredible talent, that in the past, often wound up sprinkled amongst the Ivies...I just don't see that trend continuing.