Hockey East transfers

[hockeytalk]

I think there are WAY TOO MANY transfers between Hockey East Schools. If Hockey East had a "sit out" rule regarding transfers, maybe these players would look more closely at the schools, the teams, coaches, programs, academics, etc. It seems like if they don't like it, full scholarship or no full scholarship, they can just go where they think the grass is greener. "My coach yelled today, I need a transfer. I dont like the third line, I need a transfer. I don't like the second line left wing, I need a transfer." "I don't like the weight room guy." "I dont like my asst. coach." "I don't like the goalie coach." Catch my drift? Kids today are so spoiled. There have been way too many transfers between programs where kids can just pick up where they left off and start playing right away. I'm hoping they do something to change this.

[Justamom]

aaahhhhh I didn't know that, that explains the amount of movement. I agree with you they should have to sit a year before they can play.

[cavbim]

I think there are WAY TOO MANY transfers between Hockey East Schools. If Hockey East had a "sit out" rule regarding transfers, maybe these players would look more closely at the schools, the teams, coaches, programs, academics, etc. It seems like if they don't like it, full scholarship or no full scholarship, they can just go where they think the grass is greener. "My coach yelled today, I need a transfer. I dont like the third line, I need a transfer. I don't like the second line left wing, I need a transfer." "I don't like the weight room guy." "I dont like my asst. coach." "I don't like the goalie coach." Catch my drift? Kids today are so spoiled. There have been way too many transfers between programs where kids can just pick up where they left off and start playing right away. I'm hoping they do something to change this.

Wow :eek:

Aren't those Hockey East women so bad. :rolleyes:

First is this any different then the kid who realizes he has to work for his grades at a certain school, or maybe doesn't like his advisor, or can't stand some of the required courses. Or maybe the kid who came to a school following a girl or boy friend. They have every right to transfer at will.

Which leads to the second point sports which require a year sitting out are the exception and not the rule in college. Those sports seem to be the ones that the coaches can't trust themselves to keep their hands off and where there is money to be made by the schools.

So there already is a partial remedy in place for any of the schools losing the player-- they have to release the player. Thus they are fully within in their right to refuse it or as being done now put restrictions on the release as to which schools they can and can't go which seems to happen when a school suspects underhandedness.

Beside that you are advocating a harsher penalty for transfering then for most. The HE men only have to sit the one year the NCAA mandates, there is no additional year like if a basketball player tried to transfer between ACC or Big East to name 2 conferences.

I will give you as being consistent the Ivy restriction on transfers within the Ivy if they make the fencer, lacrosse player or even the member of the crew sit. However I think the rule stopping it within the WCHA is bad. It might be they have the same rule for the men's hockey, however to me its seems a good way to quash weaker teams from getting better. A Minn/Wisc for example can recruit anyone they want, sell them on playing for good old state U their lifelong dream. Once the glitz becomes reality the player realizes they didn't pan out they might get a hint to move on or they might realize they don't belong. Now the teams that pick up Minn/Wisc's leftovers have to make the player sit if they want to come there. Yet Minn/Wisc can go right out and use the scholarship over and draw in another potential star and either hit pay dirt of start the cycle all over.

To limit the women's ability to move is detrimental. You have but 30 choices, I don't think there are many sports that are more minor then women's hockey in the NCAA's eyes. Very good tell them they can transfer without sitting unless within your league which in most cases shuts you out of about 1/4 the schools and most likely in HE players limits them even more since it is highly unusual players transfer into Ivy schools.

Finally its a chance for Hockey East to gain the stability they need to get better. You will see a lot less of this once (or unfortunately if) stability is found. One of the most stable programs is UConn. Their coach has been there 7 years now and the program is 6 years old so they have gone through more then one recruiting cycle. I believe they are also fully funded so she is getting the players she wants. Transfers don't look like they fit there. I would suspect UNH will not look to the transfer route much now that McCloskey has been there 4 years and stability looks like it has returned. At one point they had the girl from Maine Kira Mischovetz (Sp) and Peters and Paul. Further its unlikely unless it was a very unique situation they would even take on a one year player like McLaughlin (even though she didn't fit you within conference transfer) since they have depth now and you wouldn't need to routinely shore up your specific areas under normal circumstances. On the other hand Maine is going through their 3rd coach in 4 years, NU's coach is just in her 3rd year and have had 3 in 8 years and I would wonder how many ships they have. Now watch Vermont if they are for real since the quickest way is to move out some of the players who really don't belong, bring in transfers so you can balance out your classes while bringing in solid freshmen. BU finds it advantageous to bring in a kid like Poulin since she is an '08 and the scholarships Durocher has earmarked for '08 still are on his desk, use them now and get them back in time to bring in your 4th class and take advantage of some veteran experience. Mutch is only in his 4th year and I would guess he's working with less then a full complement scholarships. For Deraney he has almost doubled his scholarships roughly since he got Halcisak, with him picking up just 2 or 3 in the past year (see one of the threads on PC in the past). He got some of those late in the year so like Durocher they would be sitting on his deskthis year if he did not get a transfer now who being gone in a couple of years allows him to recycle them with a new recruiting class where he's had the chance to know how many he can recruit and still offer them somthing to attract them to his school.

[sheba]

isn't there some "penalty" when a scholarship player leaves - where the college "loses" that scholarship for another year?? Or is this only if the player flunks out or doesn't get a release???

[hockeytalk]

Wow :eek:

Aren't those Hockey East women so bad. :rolleyes:

First is this any different then the kid who realizes he has to work for his grades at a certain school, or maybe doesn't like his advisor, or can't stand some of the required courses. Or maybe the kid who came to a school following a girl or boy friend. They have every right to transfer at will.

Which leads to the second point sports which require a year sitting out are the exception and not the rule in college. Those sports seem to be the ones that the coaches can't trust themselves to keep their hands off and where there is money to be made by the schools.

So there already is a partial remedy in place for any of the schools losing the player-- they have to release the player. Thus they are fully within in their right to refuse it or as being done now put restrictions on the release as to which schools they can and can't go which seems to happen when a school suspects underhandedness.

Beside that you are advocating a harsher penalty for transfering then for most. The HE men only have to sit the one year the NCAA mandates, there is no additional year like if a basketball player tried to transfer between ACC or Big East to name 2 conferences.

I will give you as being consistent the Ivy restriction on transfers within the Ivy if they make the fencer, lacrosse player or even the member of the crew sit. However I think the rule stopping it within the WCHA is bad. It might be they have the same rule for the men's hockey, however to me its seems a good way to quash weaker teams from getting better. A Minn/Wisc for example can recruit anyone they want, sell them on playing for good old state U their lifelong dream. Once the glitz becomes reality the player realizes they didn't pan out they might get a hint to move on or they might realize they don't belong. Now the teams that pick up Minn/Wisc's leftovers have to make the player sit if they want to come there. Yet Minn/Wisc can go right out and use the scholarship over and draw in another potential star and either hit pay dirt of start the cycle all over.

To limit the women's ability to move is detrimental. You have but 30 choices, I don't think there are many sports that are more minor then women's hockey in the NCAA's eyes. Very good tell them they can transfer without sitting unless within your league which in most cases shuts you out of about 1/4 the schools and most likely in HE players limits them even more since it is highly unusual players transfer into Ivy schools.

Finally its a chance for Hockey East to gain the stability they need to get better. You will see a lot less of this once (or unfortunately if) stability is found. One of the most stable programs is UConn. Their coach has been there 7 years now and the program is 6 years old so they have gone through more then one recruiting cycle. I believe they are also fully funded so she is getting the players she wants. Transfers don't look like they fit there. I would suspect UNH will not look to the transfer route much now that McCloskey has been there 4 years and stability looks like it has returned. At one point they had the girl from Maine Kira Mischovetz (Sp) and Peters and Paul. Further its unlikely unless it was a very unique situation they would even take on a one year player like McLaughlin (even though she didn't fit you within conference transfer) since they have depth now and you wouldn't need to routinely shore up your specific areas under normal circumstances. On the other hand Maine is going through their 3rd coach in 4 years, NU's coach is just in her 3rd year and have had 3 in 8 years and I would wonder how many ships they have. Now watch Vermont if they are for real since the quickest way is to move out some of the players who really don't belong, bring in transfers so you can balance out your classes while bringing in solid freshmen. BU finds it advantageous to bring in a kid like Poulin since she is an '08 and the scholarships Durocher has earmarked for '08 still are on his desk, use them now and get them back in time to bring in your 4th class and take advantage of some veteran experience. Mutch is only in his 4th year and I would guess he's working with less then a full complement scholarships. For Deraney he has almost doubled his scholarships roughly since he got Halcisak, with him picking up just 2 or 3 in the past year (see one of the threads on PC in the past). He got some of those late in the year so like Durocher they would be sitting on his deskthis year if he did not get a transfer now who being gone in a couple of years allows him to recycle them with a new recruiting class where he's had the chance to know how many he can recruit and still offer them somthing to attract them to his school.

OH NO! I sound like a woman?

[Jon]

OH NO! I sound like a woman?

Umm, that's your response.

Remind me not to get into an argument with cavbim. I don't know how long it takes for him to type all of that out, but wow! I thought was I long winded... :eek:

[sandiegoblkbr]

Women's sports programs operate by their own rules ;)

[ARM]

However I think the rule stopping it within the WCHA is bad. It might be they have the same rule for the men's hockey, however to me its seems a good way to quash weaker teams from getting better.There is a flip side to this issue. The rule can also lessen that chance that players who start out at a "weaker" program will defect to one of the league powers if they turn out to be one of the better players in the WCHA, and are thus more coveted.

Edit: Anyway, I believe this is a WCHA league rule for men and women. There are also Big Ten rules that come into play regarding any transfers between Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Minnesota. For example, they cannot accept an athletic scholarship after a transfer from one Big Ten school to another.

[cavbim]

There is a flip side to this issue. The rule can also lessen that chance that players who start out at a "weaker" program will defect to one of the league powers if they turn out to be one of the better players in the WCHA, and are thus more coveted.

Edit: Anyway, I believe this is a WCHA league rule for men and women. There are also Big Ten rules that come into play regarding any transfers between Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Minnesota. For example, they cannot accept an athletic scholarship after a transfer from one Big Ten school to another.


I do realize that is a possibility and truthfully I wouldn't care (I realize maybe if I was a SCSU or MSU fan it might be different) if some girl as part of her college experience works to improve and become a player a Minn would like and she wants to trade in what she did her first year(s) of college I have no problem. I just don't see hockey as being a big enough deal with enough at stake to stop these kids if they see their real goal and they want to pursue it. I also believe there are enough factors at work that will keep such moves to a minimum. First the school has to release her and its possible if they thought a Minn was tampering they would agree to release her but to go to any school but Minn. The second part goes back to the discussion I outlined about stability. There are only 18 scholarships that a Minn or Wisc can give out, you average them out and figure in a few partials it probably comes to being able to take on 5 or 6 kids a year. While at this point the women's programs at those schools don't have their '09 classes lined up like Lucia and Eaves do at those schools for the men I have a hunch through unofficial visits they have a good idea who they are targeting which takes scholarships off the market pretty quick. I just don't think the top echlon schools are going to really waste their time on a transfer you get for 2 or 3 years when its easy to get player you want for 4 years. The point is once you reach 18 scholarships and have them out it becomes hard to have one in your back pocket to hand out if opportunity does knock. Both Deraney and Durocher were in position to do so because they haven't had 18 scholarships. One of the things I've thought pretty consistent over the years is teams in women's hockey don't overstock. Women don't seem to like to be the odd women and really have to fight for a position. For instance at Minn last year there were 25 rostered players on the men's squad only 21 on the women. Less openings to transfer into. Just a note I'll bet Feldman's arrival will soon turn the lightbulb on for some player at PC who realizes their playing time has dried up (partially because its a 2 year situation as there is only 1 senior forward).

On your second comment I guess that speaks to the origins, but hopefully you see the inequity, for men its what the NCAA already says--nothing lost. For the women its a true penalty. Seems unfair. I find the Big Ten thing interesting and clearly might be the basis for the WCHA's rule since Minn and Wisc would surely be driving forces in the WCHA. I know the Big East requires basketball players to sit out 2 years so in essence they lose a year but they technically can transfer in conference but I was under the impression for minor sports it just didn't matter it was allowed.

Lastly just a note there are 77 Division I Field Hockey programs, there are just over 30 hockey programs. Field hockey is hardly a big time sport so just where does that place ice hockey? My whole point simply is if they want to move on you hve to give them some options, there are very few.

[ARM]

I find the Big Ten thing interesting and clearly might be the basis for the WCHA's rule since Minn and Wisc would surely be driving forces in the WCHA. I know the Big East requires basketball players to sit out 2 years so in essence they lose a year but they technically can transfer in conference but I was under the impression for minor sports it just didn't matter it was allowed.That's probably the key -- at schools like Wisconsin and Minnesota, men's hockey isn't a minor sport. The WCHA has typically kept most of the rules the same for women, even trying a Final 5 playoff format before it made any real sense to do so.

Personally, I don't think the sit-a-year rule is a bad one. It doesn't really hurt the students who decide they want to be somewhere else for academic reasons, because most don't graduate in just 4 years anyway. They can still have 4 years of eligibility, but it makes them think a little about whether or not the new situation would really be that much of an improvement. For those who can't tolerate their present team but don't wish to wait a year, they at least have the option of playing immediately out of conference, an option not provided to student athletes in some sports due to NCAA rules.

You are right that the power teams wouldn't have that many extra scholarships available. For a Shari Vogt type player, I think that they would figure out a way to free up a ride.

[finalapprch]

For a Shari Vogt type player, I think that they would figure out a way to free up a ride.

I'm curious, how can a team free up a ride after they have been awarded?

[ARM]

I'm curious, how can a team free up a ride after they have been awarded?Obviously you can't once they have been awarded. But suppose a team has two goalies (say an incoming frosh and a returning junior on a total of 1.6 scholarships.) In most cases, they wouldn't award any more scholarship money to a goalie for a couple of years. But if an excellent goalie, like a Vogt, expressed a desire to transfer, they might be able to get by with an extra walk-on at forward for a year to free up money. They might back away from someone they were recruiting, but they'd still have to honor commitments made to signed players.