Wisconsin, UNH, and Other Power Teams -- Dynasties in the Making?

[ARM]

Wisconsin was a good team. But dynasty? Come on. This years team was not as good as the last two Minni teams. They were good don't get me wrong. But they have a long way to go to wear the tag dynasty.Let's continue the discussion of how Wisconsin, UNH, SLU, Mercyhurst and anybody else we want to include, will shape up in the non-Olympic realm of D-I hockey.

[ARM]

I don't know that I'd lump the two Minnesota NCAA championship teams in the same bucket. The 2004 team was very green on D and much thinner both up front and on D, at least by the end of the season. IMO, a big key to that team winning it all was that Jody Horak played the best games of her career down the stretch. The 2005 team had more talent, which often didn't show because many of the players weren't asked to carry much of a load on the offensive end.

I'd say that three best teams in the NCAA era were the 2003 Bulldogs, the 2003 Crimson, and the Gophers of 2005. It is tough to try to put them in any order, but I do think that those three seperated themselves from the rest.

Of last year's teams, both Wisconsin and UNH were excellent teams with futures that look bright. I don't think either had quite the "names" that the other three did, but then that is to be expected, in that they had younger players who are still making a name for themselves.

The degree of difficulty will clearly go up for the 2006-2007 season. It remains to be proven whether Wisconsin's climb to the top of the WCHA was due to their own improvement, or if the problems of UMD and UM played were just as large of a factor. St. Lawrence will clearly face a much bigger challenge from Harvard and Dartmouth if they wish to repeat their regular season championship. As for UNH and MC, I don't see anyone poised to give either a big threat within their league.

[ARM]

I wonder how, in theory, Riggs and Agosta would fit into the Badger system. The overly optimistic view would be that the Badgers' defensive prowess combined with the pairs' offensive talent would make them tough to beat. The overly pessimistic view is that they simply wouldn't be a good fit. We've seen individual talents have success on Wisconsin before, like Sara Bauer, but, well, Bauer's clearly one of the smartest players in women's college hockey, and it's not a given that success would translate to every individual talent.The Badgers have had players in the past who really aren't their "typical" type of forward. I think of players like Burish and Cole as being their norm -- Bauer and Lawler may be the type that they'd like to have in Badger utopia. But they've also had power forwards along the lines of Friessen, Macy, and Zaugg who are from a different mold.

Any of their forwards have to be able to play defense first -- know your responsibility in your own zone and carry it out and backcheck hard. There is some lattitude for offensive creativity, but not as much with some other team's approach. If you don't carry out your D assignments or take too many undisciplined penalties, e.g. Macy early in her career, you wind up out of the lineup. Still, a player like Burish did okay even though she took more penalties than average, because her D met the requirements.

I don't know enough about Riggs or Agosta to say how they'd fit into the Badger system.

[binnyrus]

It would seem that winning one NCAA crown is the beginning. I'd say for example that after UMD won the 1st of it's three they believed in themselves more and played with more confidence. Same with Minnesota. It's an entirely different mindset that leads to "dynasty". Harvard and Dartmouth come to mind when thinking about teams with so much potential, but they never crossed over to win it all. Wisconsin's done that now and so the possibility is there.

That being said there are so many factors that go into it. Coaching and chemistry are two of them. UMD was 'lucky' in 2003 in the sense that the players they added fit in and that the leaders of the team had played together for four years.

The skill in the women's game is advancing so quickly . . . I still think we're in a time when any team with the right mixture can rise to the top. Even the term "Dynasty" seems too big to use for the sport yet.

Just thoughts off the top of my head.

[brookyone]

Wisconsin was a good team. But dynasty? Come on. This years team was not as good as the last two Minni teams. They were good don't get me wrong. But
they have a long way to go to wear the tag dynasty.
It's possible I have a higher regard for the 2005-06 Badger team than others, however, I don't feel that level of regard is unjustified. The '05-'06 Badgers may not have been as good as those past Minnesota teams but I don't think the gap is particularly large. I think the Badger team that won the title could have and would have given those Minnesota championship teams fits...the previous Badger teams did. I thought this Wisconsin team was improved despite the loss of the Olympians on the blueline. Watching them I didn't think they skipped a beat after losing those players, and I think the gap between such a team, with those two conjectured transfers and previous Gopher championship teams would be very nearly indistinguishable. I just believe that within the hypothetical musing of adding Riggs & Agosta to the current Badger roster would without much doubt be a team capable of winning it all the next 1-2 years...if you want to call that a dynasty.

I don't worry too much about how those two hypothetical additions might fit in. Johnson is quite skilled at making players fit in my view.

I would add that conjecture regarding a "fantasy" Badger team is moot at this stage. Frankly, I hope we never find out. ;)

[dave1381]

Harvard and Dartmouth come to mind when thinking about teams with so much potential, but they never crossed over to win it all.
Uh, 1999 for Harvard??? I don't think any "confidence factor" was any less relevant for an AWCHA title than an NCAA title. And personally, I don't think it was all that relevant for any championship result except maybe 2002, when the experience of 2001 probably helped UMD bounce back from an Olympic swoon.

[binnyrus]

Uh, 1999 for Harvard???

I should qualify my post with the fact that I only started watching women's hockey in the 2000-01 season, my history of the sport goes back to only that point. My comments were in regard to the championship as it currently exists.

[monstersfan]

I think there is some truth in that strong, big, fast skating power forwards have maybe not faired as well under Johnson as maybe another coach- Macy, for instance, but also Meghan Hunter's final two years were less productive scoring wise than her first two years, in which she broke away, skated through defenders, and scored with a little regularity- Macy also did the same. Zaugg might have a hair less foot speed than those two. Hunter fit into the system, Macy didn't. Hunter may have had a little bit of an injury issue- she was certainly hurt in the second season.

It will be interesting to see how Vetter works out in the second year, as other teams learn where her weaknesses are (if any). There's simply very little tape of her getting scored on in her collgiate carreer.. One goal allowed in her last three games. Dufour is also a first class goalie, nothing to be afraid of there. The Badgers had three top rank starting goalies last year, just how many teams can say that?

There are some questions to be answered in the upcoming season. Will Vickie Davis come back from injury? Will there be a third goalie recruited, and if so, redshirted? The Badgers lost some very underrated seniors- Cole, Burrish, Kenyon, formed a great line at times, Hutchins moved around and was a valuable role player, great on special teams. The seniors were also leaders, Bauer is clearly a leader, but which of the other juniors will step up, SLusar most likely.

Mikka Nordby kinda disappeared towards the last of the season, was she hurt? Rachel Bible, nominally a freshmanforward, ended up on defense quite a bit.

With only four sophmores this year (but oh, what sophmores), will some transfers help fill in that class?

Will more folks start filling in the 10,000 empty seats that are usually in the Kohl Center? How many of them will be under the age of fourteen, getting into hockey?

Will more schools start looking at the exploding Wisconsin talent scene? Wisconsin players are starting to show up on East Coast team, but not in Minnesota and Ontario numbers.

Will there be a renewed push for the Western Canada players that Johnson's predecessor used to bring in?

[dave1381]

Did Macy not fit into Johnson's system or is she kind of the player that wouldn't really fit into most anyone's system?

[ClOuD 9]

Will Vickie Davis come back from injury?
How many years of eligibility does she have left? I believe she redshirted her Sophmore year at UNH too, so she has two years correct? She may no longer be a Wildcat, but I certainly wish her the best of luck in making a return to the ice.