View Full Version : The Official Thread of the 2006 Boston Red Sox
Todd Patten
05-10-2006, 12:33 PM
Yes, Bernie has been a classy player his whole career and deserves respect, but when is it okay to throw equipment in the direction of an umpire? if the Umpire wasn't in the motion of throwing him out that hits him in the leg. Was he trying to hit him? I would think probably not, but it doesn't matter. The umpire was horrible, sure, but is that an excuse for throwing anything at him? The umpire, in D. Young's mind was awful (looked like he had a gripe on that strikeout) but that doesn't excuse his reaction.
I simply don't think the reaction was that bad. I think he slammed his helmet down, unfortunately at an angle. It kept rolling. Nothing too dramatic.
I thought Young flung the bat behind him without looking, meaning he wasn't trying to hit the ump.
Gibber
05-10-2006, 12:51 PM
I simply don't think the reaction was that bad. I think he slammed his helmet down, unfortunately at an angle. It kept rolling. Nothing too dramatic.
it wasn't slammed down, it was tossed in the direction of the umpire, and struck the ground where his feet were an instant before.
Gibber
05-10-2006, 12:54 PM
Contrast with Bernie, who put a high arcing trajectory on the helmet and had it ricochet into the ump on the bounce, and I really don't think there's more than minimal comparison between the incidents.
the helmet didn't rocochet into the ump (or make contact with him), it landed where his feet were an instant before.
The incidents were different (though no one who was not at the game in Pawtucket saw the tossing end of the incident), but Bernie threw his helmet in the direction of the umpire. if he's just going to 'slam his helmet down' he's going to do it in front of him on the way back to the dugout
kennedy
05-10-2006, 01:15 PM
Doesn't matter if he was trying to or not. See Young, Delmon.
Actually, it does. The IL president said if he could conclusively prove that Young was throwing the bat AT the umpire, the suspension would have been even harsher.
Blackout
05-10-2006, 01:28 PM
It came into the frame awfully fast to be just "flipping the bat back to home plate". It sure looked to me like he was deliberately throwing it at the ump, based only on the business end of it (the part that's been replayed on TV). And it hit him in full flight.
Craig, the angle on TV is a little bit of an illusion. Young was walking away, was a good 15 feet away, turned to toss the bat back at home plate, and it just sailed. Everyone was pretty stunned, but no one in the park seemed to think he was aiming at the ump. What got him suspended was his lack of remorse (he just kept walking straight to the club house), and his antics prior to being tossed (after being rung up, he wouldnt leave the box. Pretended he was still up and then stared down the ump). Combine it all and it was a disaster.
CLS, I was there, Young was not trying to hit the ump, he was flipping the bat back to home plate.Thanks for the observation.
I do still think while it's understandable that we compare the Young incident to last night, IMO there must be a lot of other incidents that provide better benchmarks. Even if the Young incident was more negligent or wantonly reckless than intentional, the potential result of hitting someone with a bat are a whole lot more serious than a batting helmet. I'm guessing that batting helmets, water bottles, gloves or other equipment have teen thrown in the direction of umpires before and I think they're better comparisons.
Of course that's tangential to the point that you were responding to, namely whether or not Delmon Young intentionally threw the bat at the umpire.
Blackout
05-10-2006, 01:55 PM
I think the attitude of how it's done has alot to do with it too. Milton Bradley threw a bucket of balls on the field just to be a pain and have a tantrum.
Meanwhile, I've seen an old clip of Jim Rice LEVELING an ump. He was running towards the ump to argue a call. He juuuust catches a spike and puts his arms out, which happen to hit the ump in the chest and he goes flying. Now, Rice without hesitating picks the ump up, dusts him off, puts his hands up and apologizes, and the ump hits him on the ***. That's the difference. Young was showing up the ump whether he meant to hit him or not. He was in no way apologetic (I actually think he crapped himself embarrased, and wanted to get off the field as fast as possible)...
On another note, my Philly trip is booked. I've never really been, so I have to ask... what's there to do in Philly? :D
Actually, it does. The IL president said if he could conclusively prove that Young was throwing the bat AT the umpire, the suspension would have been even harsher.
I was referring to the point that it shouldn't matter whether or not he was trying to hit the ump, since the result warranted the punishment.
That said, I fully suspect that Yankee Bob Watson will rule Bernie did nothing wrong. :rolleyes:
Mark Laliberte
05-10-2006, 03:21 PM
Time to start up part 2! :D
Scarlet
05-10-2006, 04:20 PM
On another note, my Philly trip is booked. I've never really been, so I have to ask... what's there to do in Philly? :D
Eat cheese steak!
The stadium is really nice. I went last season - we were there for my cousin's graduation from Penn. He was interning at the Phillies and got us in. He took me around the whole stadium, the Diamond Level, etc. I think they did a great job with it.
justinD
05-10-2006, 04:45 PM
IWhat would he do with the extra second? Look at a replay? With ball/strike calls the two most important things are consistency and decisiveness. If he hesitated after every ball/strike call, then fine. But if he hesitates an unusually long time like that, the players can legitimately think that the umpire considered extraneous, something other than whether the pitch was in the strike zone or not. Like, for example, "The pitcher has had good/bad control to this point." Like "The game's out of hand, and I want to go home." Like "Player X had been yapping about the strike zone, so I'll show him who's boss."
it's rediculous to think that anyone thinks the umpire is doing anything but making a call, these are pros...we joke about "wanting to get home early", but that happens in september during a KC/Detroit game.
That wasn't the only time he hesitated, he did it several times.
decisiveness is useless if you're wrong. consistancy is #1 and by a long shot.
umps run stuff over in their head to make sure that the sizzling, moving 92 mph pitch did break over the corner of the IMAGINARY zone they constructed.
whatever...noone is convincing anyone of anything here.
NUJerseyJohn
05-10-2006, 06:49 PM
When will this thread end? :p :D
Westfield Eagle
05-10-2006, 07:05 PM
what makes it worse is that it was clearly a strike.
bernie had a paul o'neill moment there.
SteveF
05-10-2006, 08:44 PM
1918 :D
NUJerseyJohn
05-10-2006, 09:13 PM
1918 :D
I bet we'll get some "clever" response about how it should go until 2004, or how the Yankees thread should close at 2000, probably from Westfield Eagle too. It sounds like something he'd say.
EDIT: Or IanAtKDR, since he spends more time trash talking the Yankees than following the Mets.
Strange game. Six innings of tractor pull, three innings of intense baseball. I'll take it, but teams that leave 15 men on base and bases loaded three times don't deserve to win. Ironic that the winning runs scored on what was actually a pretty good defensive play.
Mark Laliberte
05-12-2006, 01:08 PM
So what is the record for most posts in a thread, because I think this one might have broken the record.
NUJerseyJohn
05-12-2006, 01:19 PM
So what is the record for most posts in a thread, because I think this one might have broken the record.
I believe one of the stupid HG-YBI threads is over 2200.
kennedy
05-12-2006, 01:30 PM
I believe one of the stupid HG-YBI threads is over 2200.
Yes, but that was before the thread post limit was enacted IIRC.
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