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Blackout,
DiNardo has options left. He would have been sent down over Papelbon even if Arroyo was still here.
Blackout
04-12-2006, 02:29 PM
Blackout,
DiNardo has options left. He would have been sent down over Papalbon even if Arroyo was still here.
No, because that would make a 26 man roster. 1 wouldnt be here to begin with.
The only change from what actually happened would have been Arroyo instead of DiNardo. Papelbon would be on the roster from the start. The problem would have come when it came time to activate Wells. He probably would have taken Crisp's spot if Arroyo was here, and Crisp would replace Stern when he came off the DL. There's no way they would have dropped Papelbon.
Blackout
04-12-2006, 02:55 PM
There is no way Crisp would be in AAA over Papelbon, that's crazy talk.
Coco extended through 2010 btw.
shrader
04-12-2006, 03:06 PM
There is no way Crisp would be in AAA over Papelbon, that's crazy talk.
Coco extended through 2010 btw.
He's talking about Crisp being on the DL.
Westfield Eagle
04-12-2006, 03:49 PM
You just said it makes no sense. Again, tell me who'd be in AAA over him with this team. Seanez was signed before Arroyo was traded, and there as 0 guarentee a trade would be made.
The Arroyo trade was a good one. Oh, and for anyone saying 'Arroyo has more homers than Wily Mo', isnt that also true for Manny?
They had Papelbon pitching in big spots last year, no? Why? Because they were grooming him for this year. After his performance last year there was no chance in hell he would be in Pawtucket. Again, you are the ONLY person I have heard say this was a possibility. Francona also said a week ago that Papelbon might be throwing the ball as good as anyone in Major League Baseball. He didn't say triple A baseball. All those other moves are supplemental, and you don't have any inside knowledge that a move wouldn't have been made to make room for Papelbon. They would not have a borderline triple A pitcher (which Papelbon clearly wasn't) as their closer in the 2nd game of the season. He has shown the Sox brass enough to warrant a position on this year's team and was never in jeopardy of losing that spot based on the way he has been pitching. I don't know who they would have dropped, traded, etc., but neither do you. To say Papelbon would be in Pawtucket is absurd in my opinion. I have heard nothing of the sort. All the talk from last year into this season was that Papelbon was a shoe-in for the big club.
Clearly I was joking about the homeruns.
Terrier
04-12-2006, 04:03 PM
That's all I'm asking. Even if Pena ends up being a failure, losing Arroyo really won't hurt the rotation or the bullpen.
I'd rather have Arroyo still on the team, he added versatility to the staff and isn't a bad fourth starter by any stretch. Also, I liked his nerve. He willingly threw inside, either to take back the plate, or in defense of the Sox starting nine.
Pena may turn out to be a poor man's Frank Thomas (in his earlier years), thriving within Fenway's accomodating dimensions.
I trust Theo's judgement on doing what's best for the team and I guess he figures there are enough good young arms already in the pipeline (Lester, et al).
Craig P.
04-12-2006, 04:07 PM
They had Papelbon pitching in big spots last year, no? Why? Because they were grooming him for this year.
I think it's much more likely that they had Papelbon pitching in big spots last year because by the end of the year, he was the best pitcher in those situations. Grooming be d*mned, if he wasn't ready to do it he wouldn't have been used that way.
Blackout
04-12-2006, 04:50 PM
It doesnt matter how highly they think of papelbon. They think similarly about Lester, Delcarmen, Alvarez, and to an extent Hansen. If there's no room ,there's no room. See: Youkilis his entire career until now. If there is no room, the youngest guy has to get his AB's elsewhere.
Anyone who brings up Arroyo's two home runs in a discussion about the trade is not worth arguing with - either they aren't taking the discussion seriously, or they are an idiot.
Why? I'd rather have in in right field than Willie Mo right now... ;)
Westfield Eagle
04-12-2006, 05:02 PM
It doesnt matter how highly they think of papelbon. They think similarly about Lester, Delcarmen, Alvarez, and to an extent Hansen. If there's no room ,there's no room. See: Youkilis his entire career until now. If there is no room, the youngest guy has to get his AB's elsewhere.
The difference is Papelbon is ready NOW. He has the mental makeup and ability to pitch well this season in the big leagues. Those other guys apparently still need time to develop. Youkilis was stuck behind a very good everyday third baseman for the last couple of years. Nobody is in Papelbon's way because in Theo's mind and Francona's mind he is a better option than DiNardo, Seanez, Riske, Tavarez (granted he's suspended), and even Foulke at this point.
There wasn't "room" for either one of these guys in the past couple years, but now is the time. It appears both are poised for breakout season's.
Westfield Eagle
04-12-2006, 05:04 PM
I think it's much more likely that they had Papelbon pitching in big spots last year because by the end of the year, he was the best pitcher in those situations. Grooming be d*mned, if he wasn't ready to do it he wouldn't have been used that way.
True. My overall point is that that showed myself and the rest of Red Sox Nation what he is capable of. I just don't believe for one second that he wasn't going to be on the opening day roster--no matter what happened in the offseason.
Blackout
04-12-2006, 05:49 PM
Riske DL'd today.
Westfield Eagle: I understand he's ready now, but we're not your average team. Our backups are starters on most other teams. It's no question it let's our farm guys develop longer. They wouldnt have Pap here for the sake of having him here, or Hansen would be here too.
The thinking is, Hansen is probably better than half our bullpen, but if there is an odd-man out, you might as well having him focus on a new pitch in AA over having him in the majors and paying an older guy to waste away in AAA.
I AGREE Papelbon is awesome, he's one of my fave's, I'm just saying if Bronson was here, he might not be,.
It doesnt matter how highly they think of papelbon. They think similarly about Lester, Delcarmen, Alvarez, and to an extent Hansen. If there's no room ,there's no room. See: Youkilis his entire career until now. If there is no room, the youngest guy has to get his AB's elsewhere.
The difference is, they don't need Lester, Delcarmen, or Hansen right now. But they need Papelbon, and they've know that from Day 1. There was no way they'd let their best relief pitcher play in Pawtucket when it could be costing the big club games. They would have made room for him whether or not Arroyo was here, and I've already demonstrated how that would be possible.
kennedy
04-12-2006, 07:42 PM
Wells does not look kosher.
The curve isn't snapping, the fastball isn't popping. He's been in the zone, but thats not a good thing when those pitches are being pounded.
This IS his 'spring training' really, so hopefully he'll get better as the game goes along.
Westfield Eagle
04-12-2006, 08:47 PM
Riske DL'd today.
Westfield Eagle: I understand he's ready now, but we're not your average team. Our backups are starters on most other teams. It's no question it let's our farm guys develop longer. They wouldnt have Pap here for the sake of having him here, or Hansen would be here too.
The thinking is, Hansen is probably better than half our bullpen, but if there is an odd-man out, you might as well having him focus on a new pitch in AA over having him in the majors and paying an older guy to waste away in AAA.
I AGREE Papelbon is awesome, he's one of my fave's, I'm just saying if Bronson was here, he might not be,.
Fair enough. I just think the plan was to have Papelbon here from the start of the season based on what he has shown them. I don't care how old he is. It's interesting that Riske is "injured" right when they activate Wells.
JohnB
04-14-2006, 09:03 AM
So let's see... Wells looked horrible and given his age is injury prone.
Clement looked awful... and for those who want to say it was one bad inning his first start and one bad inning his 2nd start... I submit to you that when you give up 4-6 runs in ONE bad inning each start you probably won't win a ton of games.
So we have 3 solid starters (and one of those 3 is injury prone) and two looking shakey already (as I was concerned about preseason). Papelbon is our closer and although he's doing great... with Bronson gone we don't have anyone to fill in for Clement or Wells if they don't get back on track and stay healthy.
Sooo... any of you other 100 win prediction kids want to give me some ideas of who fills the starter role if Clement and Wells end up being ineffective?
Certainly not time to panic, but it seems to be progressing right off the bat towards my preseason concerns.
Sox pitching is great... when all is clicking perfectly and their are no injuries. However, Sox pitching is as fragile a bunch collectively as you might find.
[edit:] And what the F is it with Ted Lilly and the Sox that they need to make him appear to be Cy ***** Young every time!
Blackout
04-14-2006, 09:08 AM
Foulke looked solid last night. I was quite pleased. Fastball was 85-86, but channge was 72-73.
ihw30
04-14-2006, 10:58 AM
The sox IMHO are in trouble this year. I don't like the depth with the starters. The offence is not as good as it once was. Will Manny ever hit again? They don't make the playoffs this year.
Haunted
04-14-2006, 11:03 AM
The sky is falling!!! 2 bad outtings in a row for their pitchers!!! They'll never win again!!!
Jesus people, don't be so melodramatic.
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