harvard goalies

[daisy4605]

what happened to emily vitt? she is no longer listed on the roster. :confused:

[camman15]

what happened to emily vitt? she is no longer listed on the roster. :confused:


What roster are you looking at???,.....

[winsorhockeydad]

The roster on the Harvard web site does not currently list her.

[camman15]

The roster on the Harvard web site does not currently list her.

You're right and I'm a big Vitt fan after having had a chance to meet her awhile back,.....just a great kid and a pretty darn good "goaler", so I'd like to know also,.....

[Crossbar44]

Emily re-evaluated her personal goals and her potential contributions to the team next year and decided over the break to leave the team. She returned early from break so she could tell each of her teammates personally. I think one factor was Harvard securing a very highly sought after goalie for next year.

[Skate79]

Emily re-evaluated her personal goals and her potential contributions to the team next year and decided over the break to leave the team. She returned early from break so she could tell each of her teammates personally. I think one factor was Harvard securing a very highly sought after goalie for next year.

That makes sense. Brittany Martin got the last couple of starts I believe, including the first weekend in January. With Ali Boe expected to make most of the starts the rest of the way and Christina Kessler on the way next year, Emily didn't figure to get much action if at all. Too bad.

This is not the first time this has happened. Emily Smith was a backup for her four years at Harvard and never saw much action. I guess it depends on what your goals are. Varsity sports require a major time commitment and if one isn't going to play, I suppose it is prudent to focus on academics or other pursuits. Still, being part of a team is something special that stays with you for the rest of your life.

[camman15]

Emily re-evaluated her personal goals and her potential contributions to the team next year and decided over the break to leave the team. She returned early from break so she could tell each of her teammates personally. I think one factor was Harvard securing a very highly sought after goalie for next year.


Well I guess with 3 goalies in the program, why would Harvard being recruiting another goalie?,.....even if Vitt and Boe are going out next year, I would think it still gives the coaching staff plenty of time to find yet another solid 'tender the following year,.....one can only assume that SOMEBODY had told Emily she was #3 on the depth charts, because it she was any higher, why would she leave the team?,.....it's a tough position to keep constituants happy with playing time, no question, but isn't one alternative to a good kid quitting finding better players to put infront of the present staff of goalies?,.....with returning olympians and a solid class of forwards/defenders, it only suggests a highly successful team next season,.....no, unless this kid was a cancer in the lockeroom, (and I can't believe she was), IMO, you do everything possible you can to be loyal to those players who are loyal to you,.....

[dave1381]

I've reread canman's post a couple times, and I still don't fully follow the argument, but I'll reply anyway.

I don't think there's any lack of loyalty on either side here. The only loyalty I think any hockey program owes any goaltender is a fair shot to win the job based on their talent. Loyalty does not mean someone should win the starting job based on seniority, or that a coach should be forbidden from trying to recruit other goaltenders who might be superior. In fact, promoting a goalie based on seniority rather than talent is being disloyal to everyone else on the team, because it's not giving the team the best chance to win.

So bottom line is, Harvard is in no way at fault here. The player made a personal decision to leave the team -- one that gets made by Harvard athletes all the time. Junior spring is a nice time to start planning your future, make progress towards a senior thesis topic, get a summer internship that leads to job after school, or start preparing to apply for gradaute programs. So if a goalie comes to Harvard, does her best to earn playing time, pushes the No. 1 goalie to be at her best for two years, but still falls short, decides that other opportunities at the school are more valuable, and leaves the team, that's a reflection on the institution's strength, not its weakness. At scholarship schools, a backup goalie might stay on against her will because money is on the line. At Harvard, you don't lose your financial aid package by pursuing other options, and everyone on the bench and the ice is there because they want to be there.

[lovetowatch]

dave 1381,

just curious, have you ever played hockey or any other division ! sport?

[camman15]

I've reread canman's post a couple times, and I still don't fully follow the argument, but I'll reply anyway.

I don't think there's any lack of loyalty on either side here. The only loyalty I think any hockey program owes any goaltender is a fair shot to win the job based on their talent. Loyalty does not mean someone should win the starting job based on seniority, or that a coach should be forbidden from trying to recruit other goaltenders who might be superior. In fact, promoting a goalie based on seniority rather than talent is being disloyal to everyone else on the team, because it's not giving the team the best chance to win.


Dave, if Emily Vitt is pushing Ali Boe for the starting position and the other goalie is clearly #3, I don't think she steps away IF the "troika" stays the same, (no goalie coming in); do you agree?,.....my point was simple; you recruit players to come to your school to help improve your program, either by upgrading a position or stabilizing it,.....Emily is a decent goalie, if not abit better than decent and good enough to play and challenge for the starting position on most college teams,.....now please don't tell me that given the circumstances of returning elite players that Harvard will have to worry about winning games 1-0,.....I haven't seen the 3rd goalie play, but I can't believe this threesome couldn't have handle this position more than adequately,.....rather than try to defend a decision to recruit a goalie, ask yourself, (and your closer to the situation than I am), was this group of goalies good enough to put Harvard back in the frozen four next season?,.....I think so, do you???,.....and sure, Harvard is so much more that 29+ hockey games a year, but that's not a reason why it's any easier for someone who has been part of the team for 2+ years to step away from something that brought her there,.....we're dealing with people who are goalies, not goalies that happen to be people,.....

[dave1381]

Well, the trokia isn't staying the same because Ali Boe is graduating. And I don't think whether the other two could lead Harvard to an NCAA title next year is relevant at all to whether Harvard's coaching staff should be recruiting another goaltender, if they think that new goaltender could be better. You always want the best people possible for your program, and to do otherwise isn't fair to everyone else in your program. If you're a goalie going to a top D-I program, you have to know that getting beat out for the starting job, whether it's someone older or younger, is a possibility. All you can ask for is a fair opportunity to compete for the top spot.

And yes, I'm sure it's tough for anyone to come up short in the competition, but as I explained, and I have some level of sympathy, but there are worse places you could be in life than a retired athlete at Harvard.

lovetowatch - Nope, though I don't see how that's relevant to this conversation. What's the follow-up, that this makes my statement less relevant? That if I were an experienced D-I athlete, I would put my own personal desire for glory above the welfare of the program? But I think most everyone has been in some situation aside from athletics where they have been part of an organization, and the right thing to do was to suck it up and do what's best for the organization.

btw, your sig. "always earned, never given" basically sums up everything I've been saying.

[ARM]

We hear a lot about Harvard being at a disadvantage because of not giving scholarships. This is one case where it actually works to their advantage. Schools typically can't afford to grant one of their 18 scholarships to a 3rd goaltender (even the second often is not on a full ride.) So if you have two returning goaltenders who are on scholarship, then you normally can't offer one to an incoming frosh as well, no matter how sought after she may be, unless you pull a scholarship out from under one of the returning kids. And that is the point where I think many would agree that you owe some loyalty to the players already in the program -- if they have the expectation of receiving aid, it seems disloyal to turn around and give that aid to a new recruit.

[lovetowatch]

dave1381

not looking to start something, just trying to put your posts in context as you post so often.

[dave1381]

understood... sorry if I went off.

and ARM's on target, like usual.

[camman15]

Well, the trokia isn't staying the same because Ali Boe is graduating. And I don't think whether the other two could lead Harvard to an NCAA title next year is relevant at all to whether Harvard's coaching staff should be recruiting another goaltender, if they think that new goaltender could be better.

And yes, I'm sure it's tough for anyone to come up short in the competition, but as I explained, and I have some level of sympathy, but there are worse places you could be in life than a retired athlete at Harvard.

.


I was under the impression that all 3 were returning and with Ali graduating, that changes everything, regardless of how good the 2 returning goalies are,.....most programs in women's hockey can survive with only 2 goalies but in this case, Vitt would have been a senior, so this is the year, if there's a good one out there,.....thanks for pointing this out, and next time I'll get my information right,.....but you know Dave, it evens puzzles me more that Emily would step away; I would think the position would be hers initially, (next season),with the other 2 making every effort to earn it away,.....

[Skate79]

I was under the impression that all 3 were returning and with Ali graduating, that changes everything, regardless of how good the 2 returning goalies are,.....most programs in women's hockey can survive with only 2 goalies but in this case, Vitt would have been a senior, so this is the year, if there's a good one out there,.....thanks for pointing this out, and next time I'll get my information right,.....but you know Dave, it evens puzzles me more that Emily would step away; I would think the position would be hers initially, (next season),with the other 2 making every effort to earn it away,.....

I have nothing factual to back this up but from what I've read on the recruiting thread, Kessler, the goalie who is coming in next year, is the real deal. If Emily felt that the coaching staff was going to go with Kessler (again, I have no facts here) and that she would have to fight for playing time with Martin, then she probably decided it wasn't worth the time commitment to continue to ride the pine even in her senior year. As Dave pointed out, planning for life after Harvard, senior thesis, internships, etc... most likely took on greater importance to Emily given her status as a backup goalie.

I'm guessing that Emily probably had a heart to heart at some point with Katey Stone and decided that enough was enough. I'm sure Katey was direct and honest with Emily if indeed that conversation took place.

BTW, didn't Harvard bring in a goalie last year by the name of Kristen Torterella? Whatever happened to her?

[bothman]

I've reread canman's post a couple times, and I still don't fully follow the argument, but I'll reply anyway.

I don't think there's any lack of loyalty on either side here. The only loyalty I think any hockey program owes any goaltender is a fair shot to win the job based on their talent. Loyalty does not mean someone should win the starting job based on seniority, or that a coach should be forbidden from trying to recruit other goaltenders who might be superior. In fact, promoting a goalie based on seniority rather than talent is being disloyal to everyone else on the team, because it's not giving the team the best chance to win.

So bottom line is, Harvard is in no way at fault here. The player made a personal decision to leave the team -- one that gets made by Harvard athletes all the time. Junior spring is a nice time to start planning your future, make progress towards a senior thesis topic, get a summer internship that leads to job after school, or start preparing to apply for gradaute programs. So if a goalie comes to Harvard, does her best to earn playing time, pushes the No. 1 goalie to be at her best for two years, but still falls short, decides that other opportunities at the school are more valuable, and leaves the team, that's a reflection on the institution's strength, not its weakness. At scholarship schools, a backup goalie might stay on against her will because money is on the line. At Harvard, you don't lose your financial aid package by pursuing other options, and everyone on the bench and the ice is there because they want to be there.

This is spot on. Teams that employ and foster this attitude win and have good chemistry. Teams that foster entitlement, seniority, etc...these are the teams that are riddled by politics and factions.

[HU2K4]

Skate79, Kristin Torretta was a walk-on, hence part of the preseason roster but not the in-season roster. She still plays goal for the Harvard JV team.

[bothman]

Dave, if Emily Vitt is pushing Ali Boe for the starting position and the other goalie is clearly #3, I don't think she steps away IF the "troika" stays the same, (no goalie coming in); do you agree?,.....my point was simple; you recruit players to come to your school to help improve your program, either by upgrading a position or stabilizing it,.....Emily is a decent goalie, if not abit better than decent and good enough to play and challenge for the starting position on most college teams,.....now please don't tell me that given the circumstances of returning elite players that Harvard will have to worry about winning games 1-0,.....I haven't seen the 3rd goalie play, but I can't believe this threesome couldn't have handle this position more than adequately,.....rather than try to defend a decision to recruit a goalie, ask yourself, (and your closer to the situation than I am), was this group of goalies good enough to put Harvard back in the frozen four next season?,.....I think so, do you???,.....and sure, Harvard is so much more that 29+ hockey games a year, but that's not a reason why it's any easier for someone who has been part of the team for 2+ years to step away from something that brought her there,.....we're dealing with people who are goalies, not goalies that happen to be people,.....

Do you think Coach K tells recruits who are applying to Duke or current players on the team that they are guaranteed playing time? He doesn't promise anyone anything and is upfront and honest and that is a big reason as to why he runs such a successful season. Excellent teams have players that are constantly being pushed - both by existing players and incoming recruits. Any player that can't handle that, shouldn't be attending the top programs in any sport.

If an excellent goalie wanted Harvard and Harvard said don't come here because even though you might be better than our current backup, I've promised her the job....now that would be the attitude of a losing program who put certain individuals ahead of the team goals.....

It's not about being good enough, it's about being the best. If Harvard asks its players to be the best that they can be while they are at Harvard, then to not lend the same policy towards recruiting etc would undermine everything the program is striving for.

[camman15]

Do you think Coach K tells recruits who are applying to Duke or current players on the team that they are guaranteed playing time? He doesn't promise anyone anything and is upfront and honest and that is a big reason as to why he runs such a successful season. Excellent teams have players that are constantly being pushed - both by existing players and incoming recruits. Any player that can't handle that, shouldn't be attending the top programs in any sport.

If an excellent goalie wanted Harvard and Harvard said don't come here because even though you might be better than our current backup, I've promised her the job....now that would be the attitude of a losing program who put certain individuals ahead of the team goals.....

It's not about being good enough, it's about being the best. If Harvard asks its players to be the best that they can be while they are at Harvard, then to not lend the same policy towards recruiting etc would undermine everything the program is striving for.

.....my entire premise about "goalie world" was predicated on the number of goalies I thought were returning,.....upon learning the truth, I endorsed bringing in another goalie, regardless of how good the returning goalies were, or the potential of the new one,.....