View Full Version : UMD vs Harvard DECC November 25-26
I don't know how much look this thread will get, but it *IS* UMD and Harvard at the DECC this Friday and Saturday ("Ivy League Doubleheader" with UMD men playing YALE in the nightcaps.)
Looking at their last 4 games, 2 losses 2 ties, they could be coming to Duluth really hungry. I know Harvard always has a nice turnout at the DECC, but being the Friday/Saturday after Thanksgiving I'd be happy (not really) 500-600 people show up, and UMD is thinking the same thing. They gave men's season ticket holders who paid for their seats early free tickets to one of the Harvard games.
If anyone who's seen Harvard has any opinions on their last 4 games, and what's either went wrong or been good about them go ahead and post them? Tying SLU is as good as any else has done so I can't see Harvard being too down.
dave1381
11-20-2005, 12:48 AM
So I've seen Harvard vs. Princeton, SLU, and Brown. Not to talk down Harvard too much, but they need to play a lot better than they have been to have any chance of being competitive with UMD. Just a lot of sloppy defensive zone play in the Princeton, Brown games, and they were better against SLU but still took a ton of penalties. UMD matches up better than SLU against Harvard because they're better capable of taking advantage of those mistakes, IMO. As for the Harvard PP, it's not as good as the numbers have shown thus far. A lot of 5-on-3 or extra attacker goals mixed in there, plus some absolute gifts, like the first PP goal vs. SLU the Saints were caught in a change. The PP was a total mess against Brown. So, bottom line, Harvard has a lot of work to do before next weekend.
Oh, as for good things, Ali Boe has quietly done a good job of bailing out a lot of Harvard defensive errors. Jennifer Sifers, with her speed, has created a ton of offense. She doesn't show up on the scorecard so much, because what happens twice a game is she creates a breakaway, gets dragged down from behind, and all you see is the penalty.
Oh, as for good things, Ali Boe has quietly done a good job of bailing out a lot of Harvard defensive errors. Jennifer Sifers, with her speed, has created a ton of offense. She doesn't show up on the scorecard so much, because what happens twice a game is she creates a breakaway, gets dragged down from behind, and all you see is the penalty.
Boe's doing exactly what you'd expect her to do, and looking at the stats she's facing a bunch more shots than she used to. Right now she's facing 10 more shots per game in their first 7 games than she did in 30 games last year. Maybe that just seems like a big number to me.
Hope to see a good series with UMD of course taking both.. but a good series especially if the people with free tickets USE their tickets.
dave1381
11-20-2005, 01:18 AM
Right now she's facing 10 more shots per game in their first 7 games than she did in 30 games last year. Maybe that just seems like a big number to me.
No, that is indeed a huge number. And it's different kinds of shots too. Like even when it was 30 shots last season, it'd be a team like Minnesota executing very cleanly to get a shot through a seasoned Harvard D.
This season, the shots are pretty messy, turnovers right in front, rebounds not getting cleared out well, that kind of thing... or against SLU they were playing a passive kill and she had to stop a lot of stuff through traffic for 2 whole minutes with Harvard never clearing the puck, while last season you could count on at least half the kill being spent outside the Harvard zone no matter the opponent. She really saved them that first period against the Saints.
No, that is indeed a huge number. And it's different kinds of shots too. Like even when it was 30 shots last season, it'd be a team like Minnesota executing very cleanly to get a shot through a seasoned Harvard D.
This season, the shots are pretty messy, turnovers right in front, rebounds not getting cleared out well, that kind of thing... or against SLU they were playing a passive kill and she had to stop a lot of stuff through traffic for 2 whole minutes with Harvard never clearing the puck, while last season you could count on at least half the kill being spent outside the Harvard zone no matter the opponent. She really saved them that first period against the Saints.
Dang... what a way to go out as a Senior.. ya hope they get it figured out sometime this season. After they leave Duluth next weekend I'll wish them as much luck as a team with only 3 seniors can have. I like the sort of rivalry that was created between UMD and Harvard via post season play.
Skate79
11-20-2005, 08:09 PM
No, that is indeed a huge number. And it's different kinds of shots too. Like even when it was 30 shots last season, it'd be a team like Minnesota executing very cleanly to get a shot through a seasoned Harvard D.
This season, the shots are pretty messy, turnovers right in front, rebounds not getting cleared out well, that kind of thing... or against SLU they were playing a passive kill and she had to stop a lot of stuff through traffic for 2 whole minutes with Harvard never clearing the puck, while last season you could count on at least half the kill being spent outside the Harvard zone no matter the opponent. She really saved them that first period against the Saints.
I told someone at the Princeton game that I felt that Harvard would win a few of these 3-2, 2-1 type games but would probably lose more of them because they just don't have any offensively skilled players who can create offense 5 on 5. If they are not on the PP, they are in trouble against a more skilled opponent even though Ali Boe is having a great season so far.
Turnovers in the D zone can be attributed to the youth and inexperience back there. The forwards have to come back and help out and thus, there is more running around and confusion which leads to turnovers which leads to goals.
UMD wins 6-1. Harvard didn't quit despite being down 6-0; scoring on the powerplay late in the 3rd period.
People who posted about Harvard being young of course were right on.. their defense really needs experience as UMD was able to get in front of the net the whole game and pepper Ali Boe the entire game.
A little disappointing that they weren't up to the caliber of some of their former teams. College hockey is usually cyclical but the game just didn't live up to the rivalry people who've seen the teams play each other are used to.
College hockey is usually cyclical but the game just didn't live up to the rivalry people who've seen the teams play each other are used to.And much of that can be traced to Chu, Vaillancourt, and Cahow being away on national teams.
dave1381
11-26-2005, 09:13 AM
A little disappointing that they weren't up to the caliber of some of their former teams. College hockey is usually cyclical but the game just didn't live up to the rivalry people who've seen the teams play each other are used to.
Don't worry, UMD-Harvard for the next three years is going to be pretty solid, I imagine. And maybe Harvard will be better prepared game two on the road, they're a young team, who knows.
Don't worry, UMD-Harvard for the next three years is going to be pretty solid, I imagine. And maybe Harvard will be better prepared game two on the road, they're a young team, who knows.
The way the UMD D was able to create the play and forecheck 4 players, I can't see today's game being any different unless there's powerplay success early from Harvard to keep the game close.
Skate79
11-26-2005, 02:06 PM
And much of that can be traced to Chu, Vaillancourt, and Cahow being away on national teams.
Don't forget the losses of Corriero and Banfield as well as Jennifer Skinner taking a year off. Harvard was decimated by graduation and the Olympics and I don't see them going past the ECACHL playoffs this year. The recruiting the past two years hasn't produced top shelf players as yet and the seniors who are here with the exception of Boe aren't doing much.
This is a transition year any way you look at it. I know that Katey Stone will say otherwise but in her heart, she has to know that she can only coax so many wins out of this team. They don't have the offensive firepower to compete on a national level this year.
Skate79
11-26-2005, 02:09 PM
The way the UMD D was able to create the play and forecheck 4 players, I can't see today's game being any different unless there's powerplay success early from Harvard to keep the game close.
Agreed. Even if Harvard gets up on the PP early, their defense is inexperienced and lacking veteran leadership (aside from Lindsey Weaver). A good to great team will expose them as the game wears on and then it will be up to Boe to hold the fort. She did it against SLU but UMD is a different story.
I agree with much of the above (and congrats to UMD on what was obviously a stellar game, BTW). But looking at the big pic, this is an important year for H. A ton of frosh & sophs are getting lots of experience against as tough a schedule as H could possibly line up. Next year's class is good and going to get better, and 3 stars come back. If the group that is here now develops well, then next year, and the next 3-4 years, will be years when they have the *potential* to truly compete on a national level.
It's also nice to see Ali play very well, and be recognized here for it - the latter has certainly not be true in the past.
dave1381
11-26-2005, 04:46 PM
The way the UMD D was able to create the play and forecheck 4 players, I can't see today's game being any different unless there's powerplay success early from Harvard to keep the game close.
I wasn't claiming Harvard was going to win the game, I was just saying I didn't think it was going to get as out of hand so quickly. I think the game will be closer than 3-0 after a period. That's all I was saying. Harvard's learning curve is steeper, they should fare better, though I think UMD will still win convincingly.
BULawDog
11-26-2005, 11:31 PM
I agree with much of the above (and congrats to UMD on what was obviously a stellar game, BTW). But looking at the big pic, this is an important year for H. A ton of frosh & sophs are getting lots of experience against as tough a schedule as H could possibly line up. Next year's class is good and going to get better, and 3 stars come back. If the group that is here now develops well, then next year, and the next 3-4 years, will be years when they have the *potential* to truly compete on a national level.
It's also nice to see Ali play very well, and be recognized here for it - the latter has certainly not be true in the past.
Yeah, it's too bad that Ali won't be around next year when those big guns come back. Vitt is probably capable of stepping it up, and Martin should develop into a very solid DI goalie. In spite of this being a tough season so far for Harvy, you never know, they may get hot in the second half of the season just like last year.
Yeah, it's too bad that Ali won't be around next year when those big guns come back. Vitt is probably capable of stepping it up, and Martin should develop into a very solid DI goalie. In spite of this being a tough season so far for Harvy, you never know, they may get hot in the second half of the season just like last year.
After seeing them this weekend.. they can only go up from where they're at leaving Duluth. There was a lot of enthusiasm on their bench even at the end of the game though, they weren't just sittin there waiting for the clock to run out. I'd be very afraid as a team with them on their schedule in the 2nd half of the season.
dayglo
11-27-2005, 11:04 AM
After seeing them this weekend.. they can only go up from where they're at leaving Duluth. There was a lot of enthusiasm on their bench even at the end of the game though, they weren't just sittin there waiting for the clock to run out. I'd be very afraid as a team with them on their schedule in the 2nd half of the season.
good to hear. It seems that Harvard and Dartmouth are in similar situations this season. If the Crimson improves as rapidly as the Green has been, it should be another terrific game on 12/14 in Cambridge.
Skate79
11-27-2005, 03:20 PM
After seeing them this weekend.. they can only go up from where they're at leaving Duluth. There was a lot of enthusiasm on their bench even at the end of the game though, they weren't just sittin there waiting for the clock to run out. I'd be very afraid as a team with them on their schedule in the 2nd half of the season.
Perhaps but losing back to back 6-1 games is not a fluke. It speaks to the gap between Harvard and the other ranked teams. I don't believe that gap will be closed this year simply because the talent isn't there for the Crimson.
Perhaps but losing back to back 6-1 games is not a fluke. It speaks to the gap between Harvard and the other ranked teams. I don't believe that gap will be closed this year simply because the talent isn't there for the Crimson.
The "heart" they showed at the end of the game will let them come back the 2nd half of the season and make a decent showing towards post season play.
Katie Stone talked about her team not quitting even when down a bunch in the DNT article. She talked about how it built 'team' on their first big road trip of the year.
Skate79
11-27-2005, 04:26 PM
The "heart" they showed at the end of the game will let them come back the 2nd half of the season and make a decent showing towards post season play.
Katie Stone talked about her team not quitting even when down a bunch in the DNT article. She talked about how it built 'team' on their first big road trip of the year.
I never said that they didn't have "heart". This isn't about "heart". This is about talent and no amount of "heart" is going to close the gap between Harvard and the top ranked teams. Simple as that.
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