USCHO Pre-Season Poll

[SLUsaints]

Hey guys, time to start up a new season, very excited here. Loving the new look to USCHO this year. I was pretty stunned to see SLU up there at #1 with Wisconsin, hopefully it can stick! It doesn't have to stick but as long as I can keep those Harvard posters quiet I'm happy ;) . Anyways, lets here your comments on the poll, and predictions. I think a lot will change and although I'd love to see SLU finish #1, I'd be really surprised if it happened.

[ARM]

SLUsaints, Glad to see you on the board. We can always use more news on the Saints and contributions from their fans. I was a little surprised that Minnesota was ranked 3rd, not because they are the best team in the country at this point, but because in the absence of a clear favorite, the champ is often allowed to keep the top spot until they lose. It's been a long time since the Gophs have been the underdog. I'm sure we'll see some movement in the polls next week, no matter what happens this weekend.

I'm looking forward to seeing St. Lawrence on Friday and Saturday. Good luck this season.

[moxie]

Princeton cracked the top 10 of the USCHO.com poll but was only 7th in the ECAC coaches poll. And the coaches poll was before Keady was recalled to Team USA. Princeton finished 9th in the USCHO.com poll last year and only lost three seniors to graduation. So why the apparent lack of respect from the coaches?

[over rated]

Excellent post Moxie. It's a good question. The three players that Princeton graduated were not even impact players in my opinion. Maybe the coaches know something the rest of us don't. I don't know how reliable the USCHO poll is and who votes on it. I remember a couple of years ago they had Bemidji
St. ranked in the preseason top 10. I have heard that Princeton did not have a good recruiting class and with the loss of Keady that is not too encouraging. But if Gaudiel can return to her mid-season form anything is possible. I guess we'll see soon enough.

[dave1381]

I don't know how reliable the USCHO poll is and who votes on it. I remember a couple of years ago they had Bemidji
St. ranked in the preseason top 10.
12 coaches, three journalists vote in the poll, it pops up sometimes on the school press releases. The men's poll is 28 coaches, 12 writers, so a little bit larger share of coaches on the women's side.

I don't think that statement about Bemidji State being in the preseason top 10 is accurate.

As for the ECACHL poll, my guess is some coaches voted before she left and some she did, so she still made the All-League team but Princeton got beat down in the poll. Those 2nd-8th teams in the ECACHL are all a lot closer then they've ever been before I think, so Princeton's as good a guess as any to be there. They have question marks for sure, but so do a lot of other teams, and at least they have some recent history of success.

[over rated]

Dave

I can't be certain about Bemidji but I do seem to recall it. I remember being shocked to see it. Is there any way to check the archived polls?

Do you know which 12 coaches voted in the USCHO poll?

[ARM]

Poll archives are here:

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/archive.php

[PrincetonFan]

I think Princeton's slide in the ECAC poll was that Colgate is considered to be improved. Dave is right--5-7 of the ECAC is close, separated by only 5 points. It's interesting that Princeton finished ahead of Yale in the USCHO poll, because Yale is thirteen points ahead of Princeton in the ECACHL poll. Perhaps it's the departure of Helen Resor? Does she mean more to Yale than Liz Keady does to Princeton?

I don't know too much about Princeton's incoming class. I just hope one or more of them can score. Gaudiel will keep them in almost all of their games (except for maybe St. Lawrence) but you gotta put the puck in the net, which has been their problem ever since the Gretchen Anderson-Andrea Kilbourne era ended.

[over rated]

The archives showed that Bemidji was ranked 11th in September of 2003. I am assuming that is the poll I was thinking about. Unless there was a preseason poll the week before which would not have been archived. Anyhow, so much for the accuracy of that poll.

I also hope that we got a sniper or two in this years class. It would be great to finally beat Yale again and pick off a few others and maybe disprove some of the coaches in their picks.

Dave did you find out who the coaches are that voted in the USCHO poll?

[ARM]

The archives showed that Bemidji was ranked 11th in September of 2003. I am assuming that is the poll I was thinking about. Unless there was a preseason poll the week before which would not have been archived. Anyhow, so much for the accuracy of that poll.That poll was the preseason poll. Hard to explain where the Bemidji St. votes were coming from, because BSU had just graduated a bunch of seniors and most of their offense. Maybe somebody knew that teams like UMD and Wisconsin were losing a lot to graduation and didn't realize that Bemidji was as well.

[dave1381]

overrated -- none of these polls have ever made their voters public, though I imagine they all strive for some kind of geographic diversity.

As for Bemidji's ranking, any top XX poll for any sport only claims to attempt to rank the top XX teams, so the poll itself is not officially endorsing a No. 11 ranking for Bemidji, although a school's media dept. will often claim to be the No. 11 team or what not if they show up in the Also Receving Votes part of the poll, in order to prop themselves up as actually being nationally ranked, when they're really not. In that poll, the voters who didn't vote Bemidji in the top 10 might not have had them in the top 11, and they didn't have the opportunity to vote someone else is a the No. 11 team - that's why it's wrong to draw that conclusion from the poll.

As for why Bemidji was picked in that poll, I would guess there were a sufficient number of WCHA voters in that poll who wanted to put in a 4th WCHA team beyond they usual three, and they just backed the wrong horse for whatever reason, the team placed fifth in the conference the year before. Ohio State and Minnesota State both ended up moving in and out of the top 10 that season.

[over rated]

I suspect your logic about the BSU rankings is right on. Originally, I thought they had been ranked in the top 10 and I guess that the fact that they had even received votes at all is somewhat shocking. I guess what you are saying is that the votes can be skewed by conferences for political purposes or by teams for promotional reasons. But mostly, a preseason poll is not the most accurate ranking.

I am curious that since none of the polls make their voters public, how did you know that there were 12 coaches and three journalists in this one? Why would it have been on a schools press release and if it was, which schools release did you get that information from?

[dave1381]

http://wcha.collegesports.com/sports/w-hockey/spec-rel/100305aaa.html
at the bottom, it says:
The USCHO.com Poll is compiled by U.S. College Hockey Online, and consists of 15 voters, including 12 coaches of Division I programs and three women's hockey writers.
by the way, the USA Today/AHM poll should be out this afternoon sometime. Still not up yet.

[ncaafan]

The poll results look fair to me. Looks like many believe there's going to be changes at the top this year. I believe Harvard at 7th is fair, but I have this feeling they're going to end up better than that - they just always do. The only one I can't agree with is Princeton at 10th. I believe both Colgate and Yale will be ahead of Princeton this year and another surprise could be Boston College.

[dave1381]

here's the USA Today/AHM poll, got it off the Dartmouth site before the USA Hockey site. St. Lawrence is No. 1 without any first-place votes??????

USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine
October 4, 2005
Team Pts (1st) Last Yr Record
1. St. Lawrence 161 3 28-8-5
2. Wisconsin 160 (7) 6 28-9-1
3. Minnesota 159 (8) 1 36-2-2
4. Minnesota-Duluth 124 (4) 5 26-6-2
5. Harvard 100 2 26-7-3
6. Dartmouth 90 4 27-8-0
7. Mercyhurst 89 7 28-7-2
8. New Hampshire 88 10 21-8-6
9. Providence College 39 8 21-11-5
10. Ohio State 12 NR 17-17-3

[RBoston]

here's the USA Today/AHM poll, got it off the Dartmouth site before the USA Hockey site. St. Lawrence is No. 1 without any first-place votes??????

3. Minnesota 159 (8) 1 36-2-2


If one were to take an unbiased look at how the Gopher votes probably panned out, you could probably say you had those that gave them first place votes based on the last two Championship Teams and than those that placed them in the bottom of the top ten who said where are the “proven” playmakers that can replace Darwitz, Wendell, Stephens and Wall. Being realistic, the first 3 carried this team for 3 years and Wall was a great addition for the last 2 years. Of the 197 goals scored last year only 61 were by returning players this year and only 18 of those 61 came against teams with winning records. So if they don’t have a lot of people step up and score, than their goalie has to stand on her head to keep them in games. Whoops, 3 freshman, another unproven slot. Which means now you’re relying on defense and if Brodt and Albrecht are your All-Stars, then they had better play better than they did against the US National team. They looked lost and slow half the time and CB looked like she preferred to watch the game from the box on Friday. That won’t help during the season, especially with the question marks at goalie and who is going to score. Therefore I am actually surprised they were ranked as high as they were. I’ll be rooting for them all the way but if things don’t break right, this could be one very long year. Here’s hoping they get things off on the right track this weekend and prove they deserved those first place votes.

[dave1381]

I think 4th or 5th is a very fair ranking for the Gophers given what they have returning. They still have pretty much the same defense that carried them to the 2004 NCAA title, and I don't think they'll miss a beat with their new goalie. On offense, they have a lot more to prove than the other top teams, so I don't think anyone should vote them No. 1 now. I know some people believe in the "they're No. 1 until they're beaten" philosophy of voting, and UMD got the same treatment prior to the 03-04 season, but as soon as a team gets those kind of legacy votes and drops a couple games, the poll just looks silly. And if you extend that "they're No. 1 until they're beaten" philosophy throughout the top 10, then you're just reproducing last year's standings, and why have a preseason poll at all?

[ARM]

I think 4th or 5th is a very fair ranking for the Gophers given what they have returning. They still have pretty much the same defense that carried them to the 2004 NCAA title, and I don't think they'll miss a beat with their new goalie. On offense, they have a lot more to prove than the other top teams, so I don't think anyone should vote them No. 1 now.You and I have had the same basic disagreement a few times in the last year, and we probably will again. Everything you say about Minnesota having question marks is true. But Wisconsin has similar issues on the blueline, having lost 3 key players who meant as much to their success. Yes, they return more of their points, but scoring is only half of the game. It just seems a double standard to say Minnesota has to drop to 5th because they have offensive questions, while Wisconsin can move up despite their questions on D.

[kwnd_fan17]

Which means now you’re relying on defense and if Brodt and Albrecht are your All-Stars, then they had better play better than they did against the US National team. They looked lost and slow half the time and CB looked like she preferred to watch the game from the box on Friday. That won’t help during the season, especially with the question marks at goalie and who is going to score.

I gotta defend Chelsey and Ashley on this one. They are both AWESOME defenders and you shouldn't look at how they'll play during the season based on the weekend's performance. The entire WCHA Team looked lost half of the time, and who can blame them. They were pulled together and had one practice. Plus, it's the beginning of the season - you can't expect everyone to be at their absolute best right away since there's always an adjustment period.

[SLUsaints]

here's the USA Today/AHM poll, got it off the Dartmouth site before the USA Hockey site. St. Lawrence is No. 1 without any first-place votes??????

USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine
October 4, 2005
Team Pts (1st) Last Yr Record
1. St. Lawrence 161 3 28-8-5
2. Wisconsin 160 (7) 6 28-9-1
3. Minnesota 159 (8) 1 36-2-2
4. Minnesota-Duluth 124 (4) 5 26-6-2
5. Harvard 100 2 26-7-3
6. Dartmouth 90 4 27-8-0
7. Mercyhurst 89 7 28-7-2
8. New Hampshire 88 10 21-8-6
9. Providence College 39 8 21-11-5
10. Ohio State 12 NR 17-17-3

Basically the votes were split out west allowing SLU to sneak in. I personally shared I believe SLU is overated at 1, I see them as top 4 for sure, and they may do even better if those 3 beat up on each other as they inevitably will. Should be a telling series opener between SLU and Minnesota, winner deserves to be #1