USA Girls'/Women's Hockey Survey

[ghshockeyfan]

USA Players, Coaches, Administrators, Parents, etc. should all take a moment to do this survey...

http://www.usahockey.com/girlswomen/main_site/main/home/05usah_girls_survey

[Crazy Otto]

Wonder how USA Hockey intends to use the results.

When I answered the question on how much money we spend on my daughter's hockey, I couldn't give an exact figure. Truth is, we spend so much on her hockey that I don't even want to know anymore!

[ghshockeyfan]

I think the cost is a huge issue - especially relative to other sports during the Winter. I can't imagine what it must be like in the majority of the US as in MN I think we're spoiled in noit having to travel as much. That cost has to be a ton too...

I hope that an effort is made to use the results to better support the girls game (and its growth) form the top level in USA H. I would imagine that's the point.

[moxie]

I think the fact that USA Hockey is doing the survey tells me all is not well in Colorado Springs. I don't have the registration statistics in front of me but I recall noticing a pretty significant attrition as girls get older.

Minnesota may be a bit spoiled regarding the travel but that is a result of what it has done right. The elite club teams that rely on drawing players from a wide geographic area may not like it, but I say the MN model is what USA Hockey should look at. And I don't buy for a second that MN hampers player development or opportunities. The only opportunity MN players (who don't go the Thoroughbred or SSM route) miss out on is to play for the USA Hockey national championship.

[ghshockeyfan]

Usually I try to shy away from mass emailing stuff to everyone - but I think I will with this as it's worth it for the input that will hopefully help come up with strategy to grow the sport more in the future...

Send the link along to your organizations...

I think you're right about the attrition and also the model that should be employed.

Personally, and I'll get attacked for this I'm sure, I believe that AAA hockey w/out a youth community based system (like MN) is a bad setup - I think it eliminated all late bloomers, and also makes the sport even more elitist due to extreme costs.

[hockeysb11]

I am the president of a girls ice hockey organization in Westchester County NY, which is a suburb on NYC. What I see in this area is a lack of players the main reason I think is that there are no high schools in the NYC area which offer girls ice hockey. So most girls in this area are not exposed to the sport. Lets face it the NYC area is one of the highest populated areas in our country and yet there are only 3 girls ice hockey organizations. This includes NYC, Long Island, and Westchester. Bring High School Hockey to this area and most other areas and you will see an increase in the interest in girls ice hockey.

[ghr]

In states without alot of available ice, women's hockey will suffer. Mens High School programs, College programs and youth programs have reserved all the ice slots; leaving no ice for womens High School or developmental programs. We may have to consider in-line programs as compliments to new ice programs in ice constrained areas for all levels and genders.

[uvmcats]

I for one find it extremely funny USA Hockey is even surveying on the subject. From what I can see, USA Hockey is only interested in developing national teams. Every program in USA Hockey is devoted to immediately ranking kids right from learn to skate on up. Why do kids leave the sport? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. How many times does a kid have to receive a message he or she doesn't measure up before they will do something else. Right now with the emphasis on having to make a select team starting at age 7 or 8, if you haven't by age 10, you leave and join the basketball program. Hockey favors kids whose parents have money or are willing to spend what money they have. Parents with money can buy the training for their relatively athletic kids so that they can compete favorably at these lower levels. Once they eliminate kids that have more athletic ability but whose parents do not have the resources for the around the year training at these young levels, their ticket to advance beyond their ability is written.

If USA Hockey is really interested in dominating world competition, it has to develop youth programs that expand the sport not put in place systems that constrict it. The larger the playing pool extending into the older ages, the more likely the best athletes will rise to the top.

[Hux]

I think the ice time issue is definately a big hurdle, and one that keeps many organizations from actively promoting girls teams. We just added a U10 team, and one of the issues we are facing is who we pair the team off with for practices since all teams below midget share ice. Since we have four teams at all levels, plus the U14 and U12 teams which are paired, the U10 is the odd one out.

The girls will definately have ice, but it is certainly a problem that has had a few board members and the ice scheduler wringing their hands. Having just returned from Canada I know that the exploding girls/womens ranks are causing a great deal of consternation there, and I witnessed first hand the resentment that the need for ice time has created.

[STOPPER130]

I think the biggest problem with part of this (girls not playing), is the fact of the parents, dislike, of the "player" not making the cut. Given the chance I feel that girls with the will to compete, will, with much force given the chance.
Yes, the cost is probably the factor that puts this bad taste in the mouth of those parents whose daughters that don't make the cut the first couple of years. However, many feel that because they are girls they must play with girls. I don't agree. There are usually more "local" boys teams around that will welcome girls and the cost is lower than "select" girls programs and usually much closer to home. Start them there, let them get a taste of the game and see what her ability level is and go from there.
Many of the top girl players have played boys hockey and they bring something diffferent to womens hockey in the end. I'm not sure if it's aggression of the game or compassion for the game but you can pick out the girls who have played boys hockey.
Probably the saddest part of the game "is" the cost. If parents don't feel it's worth it for their daughter to play on a lower team, due to cost and travel, then it's probably not going to happen. Though there are many parents that sacrifice alot so that their daughters and sons can play the game.

[Hux]

I don't see cost as really being that much of a hinderence, as many traditional female oriented pursuits (gymnastics, dancing, equestrian, figure skating) are as expensive when you total the week to week costs.

As I noted in my response to the survey, a common refrain from parents that I encoiuntered while recruiting young girls for our program (the figure skating coaches hate when I make the rounds at Saturday morning sessions) is the "violence" or "dangers" in hockey.

When I mention that in all of last season and the season before there were only two serious injuries (a broken wrist and a sprained ankle) for some 400 kids playing and practicing over the course of two seasons they are amazed. And the comment they most often then make is "Wow, and we had so and so break fingers, loose teeth, twist this or that etc in one softball, little league, or soccer game."

So I would say that the perception of the game being violent or dangerous is the biggest obstacle to having hordes of little girls signing up. That is unless you live in my town, where being a Pop Warner cheerleader ( 150 cheerleaders to 65 players) is the preferred route to Disney World and multiple National Championships. (Four championships and two second places last year alone)

[noteethlurch44]

Many of the top girl players have played boys hockey and they bring something diffferent to womens hockey in the end. I'm not sure if it's aggression of the game or compassion for the game but you can pick out the girls who have played boys hockey.

From a European perspectve. I see this also in International games, you can just pick out the girls/women who play or have played boys hockey. They are normally the top players, as they have to play faster and with their heads up. They have to train harder and play smarter to keep their place on the roster. You can even spot the older players who do additional training with mens teams. It is quite common in Europe for very talented women players to train with pro/semi pro teams, unfortunately most local associations won't allow them to play.

With regard to cost. It's the same the world over. Hockey is an expensive sport full stop.

As I was told by my father and I have told my kids, play and train so that the coach doesn't have the option of not picking you. If he doesn't pick you?. Try harder and don't bleat.

[SAMMEE]

I hope everyone is forwarding the survey information to anyone they know with an interest in Girls'/Women's hockey. I am surprised that USA hockey would put out a survey of this type in the middle of summer and after the National meetings - it will be forgotten by next year. As someone with 30 plus years involvement in post-playing days hockey I feel USA Hockey has no interest in girls hockey other than the "elite" level and Title IX requirements.

Their own statistics indicate that growth is pretty much flat over the last few years (I don't consider 2-3% growth) and if you take out Adult and a few areas of the country it is even worse. It is a huge untapped market if they would concentrate on growth and development in the younger age brackets. They should discontinue National Championships and Select Camps below the 16U level. Right now if you have not made the elite AAAAA travel team by 12 you might as well pick another sport. When my son played he did not make a travel team until Midget age - played other sports; went to non-hockey summer camps; bummed around in the summer - and still was able to play D3 College Hockey. As a girls' coach I see all of the girls going to camps; tournaments; showcases etc year round (if you look at the rosters you pretty much see the same names at HNIB; LP; Chowder Cup; NAHA etc) and the D1 Rosters are still full of Canadians and Minnesotans.
Maybe we should learn from them - develop the numbers and the talent will rise with the best athletes - rather than just consolidate the talent and the money and ignore the rest.
Hopefully something positive will come from the survey but I doubt it.
Keep the faith!!

[ghshockeyfan]

My hope is that with an AMAZING return on the survey that they will be forced to look at the girls more. I didn't see this survey posted anywhere that was accessible directly from their website (although i didn't look hard) - and it was passed to me by someone that was on a mailing list for them (or so they think). I'm curious as to how many received this directly from USA H and not a third party...

[quixote]

I received it directly by email from USA Hockey. We live in the West and have a daughter who will play D1 this fall. I'm not sure which mailing list we were on (national festival, member list, etc.) but she has played boys youth hockey in the States and high school hockey in Canada. I'm considering my responses carefully as I ponder the questions since we were from one of the areas with little girls hockey. This thread has been interesting for all the points presented.

[OhiohockeyDad]

We got ours directly- girls play for USA Hockey registered girls teams, however we did register for their newsletter via email

I'm looking for the question- how do you feel when your daughters' rolemodel and hero is treated like a chump????

ESPN-buccigross (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=buccigross_john&id=2145917)

[Hux]

As usual Bucci makes some very good points. At first I wasn't all that shocked to see two older players not make the roster. But this article really puts it into perspective. One has to really wonder what is going on out in Colorado Springs, or on the dock in Gloucester?

[GreatHockey]

I received the survey by e-mail but don't know how or where they received my e-mail address. Same story for my daughter. I think its a USA Hockey "smoke screen" to make everyone think they are really interested in girls/womans hockey. The numbers continue to decline but no real efforts to stop the "fall" and plant new growth.

In our area, and if you want your daughter to advance, she must play boys hockey since the girls programs are so weak. Even if you could get the best girls together from the different teams in the area you don't have anyone to play against. In fact some parents just don't understand this and like the oppertunity for thier child be a star at this level. If they only knew about the compentition out there they might change their minds and work to advance their daugherts skills. I wonder how the girls programs can grow with this thinking. Although, its keeping some girls playing hockey.

Remember the victims suffering from the hurricane: Donate to the Red Cross!

[COACHYEVET]

I would like to say that I truly believe that USA Hockey, especially the Girls/Womens Section is committed to the advancement of girls hockey in the USA. Did you know that we have grown to over 50K female players from 10k less than 10 years ago? Did you know that programs like the "Put the Biscuit in the Net" is a pilot grassroots program from USA Hockey that is working to expose Girl Scouts (and there are over 2.8 million of them) to our wonderful sport for little or no cost to the participants at a local level?
Did you know that the volunteers in the girls/women's section of USA Hockey and many others there give numerous hrs of their time at no charge to anyone so that they can help to grow girls and womens hockey in their districts? The survey that we are all talking about came from the Girls and Womens Section of USA Hockey so that they could get a pulse on how to help keep our sport growing. Yep growing. Did you know that we are one of the major growth areas in hockey. Yep Girls and Women. I know it is a hard job and with the cost of ice and now gas, it is going to get harder. But I know that these dedicated volunteers are trying their best as are all of you out there.
Just my thoughts.

[Hux]

Well we are doing are part here in Burlington. In April the high school coach and I ran a free six week clinic for girls in the hopes of increasing the numbers participating in the program. We had 21 already playing in the program (the U12s won a league championship too) and another 32 came out for the camp.

I just returned from a Board meeting where I was informed that so far 25 of those 32 have signed up to play this year, with the bulk being '96s or younger.

So things are looking up here to be sure. And I would expect that with the exposure of the Olympics nationwide we ought to see a bit of a boom next year.