Question about Harvard roster

[over rated]

Harvard has three players on their rosters that are listed as sophomores. Siliciano, Torreta and Wilson. Has anyone seen them play? Were they red shirts last year?

[HU2K4]

Are you using USCHO's roster as a guide? If so, that might be inaccurate. USCHO lists Siliciano and Toretta as being on last year's team, which is not true. Pretty sure both were walk-ons who did appear on the first preseason roster but wound up playing JV. USCHO does not list Susie Wilson, but she was on the team while rehabbing an injury. Her dad played hockey at Harvard in the 1970s. Harvard is slated to carry 17 skaters (not counting Chu and Vaillancourt) and 3 goaltenders in 2006. Not the biggest roster you'll see, but still 3 more players than HU had in either 2001 or 2002 (the last time national teamers were away) and 3 more than Dartmouth carried last season.

[over rated]

The USCHO site for Harvard has both Siliciano and Toretta listed for 2005-6 and Harvard's team website has Wilson but not the other two.

If they were walkons, does that mean they were not recruited? I seem to recall a discussion about Siliciano last year on this board.

Since you know the size of the roster for next year, you must know the names of the recruits. I don't think I've seen any official announcements. Care to share with us who they are? Thanks.

[Crossbar44]

Siliciano and Toretta took themselves off the team during last year’s preseason. Wilson is a step below the other recruited players in ability but excels in academics.

[HU2K4]

No one knows for sure yet. For example, Vaillancourt is already camping with Team Canada, Chu is a mortal lock to go with Team USA, but Jennifer Sifers and Caitlin Cahow were both invited to the Team USA's August festival so in theory, Harvard could lose them as well. I just meant subtracting Chu and Vaillancourt, then adding back the five recruits listed on this site (pretty good info that at least those five are coming), that sums to 17 skaters and 3 goalies. That's all.

[Icelady9]

No one knows for sure yet. For example, Vaillancourt is already camping with Team Canada, Chu is a mortal lock to go with Team USA, but Jennifer Sifers and Caitlin Cahow were both invited to the Team USA's August festival so in theory, Harvard could lose them as well. I just meant subtracting Chu and Vaillancourt, then adding back the five recruits listed on this site (pretty good info that at least those five are coming), that sums to 17 skaters and 3 goalies. That's all.

There are 40 skaters on the US team. What is the process and timeline for cutting the team national team down to 23 players?

[over rated]

HU2K4

Now it looks like Harvard has 8 recruits (from the ECAC website) and the sophmore Wilson still on the roster. What does that do to their numbers. You said they planned to go with 17 and 3 when they had five recruits.

Crossbarr 44

What do you mean exactly when you say that Wilson excels in academics? One would assume all Harvard students excel in academics. Please explain.

[HU2K4]

I didn't tell you what they planned to do. I tried to give you some info surrounding Wilson, Toretta, and Siliciano and why I thought the USCHO roster you seemed to be using as a guide was inaccurate. Wilson has always been on the team. Toretta and Siliciano were in school but not on the team so for them to be on this year's roster, they would have to walk on (or get called up from JV if indeed they're playing there). My point was Harvard already had 17 skaters and 3 goaltenders so it seemed unlikely that a walk-on/call-up would be added to the depth chart. Just logic, not any snazzy inside info and now they have 20 skaters so the reasoning remains the same.

[Crossbar44]

“What do you mean exactly when you say that Wilson excels in academics? One would assume all Harvard students excel in academics. Please explain”

Over Rated: I was trying to say in a nice way that she was brought onto the team to academically balance another player who was highly recruited by many teams and might have had trouble meeting the NCAA requirements regarding team averages.

[goalie8pucks]

“What do you mean exactly when you say that Wilson excels in academics? One would assume all Harvard students excel in academics. Please explain”

Over Rated: I was trying to say in a nice way that she was brought onto the team to academically balance another player who was highly recruited by many teams and might have had trouble meeting the NCAA requirements regarding team averages.

Crossbar.....how do you know a Harvard player had academic trouble meeting NCAA requirements? Do you work in the NCAA office? How would you have seen any of the transcripts. There's a lot of things that people report that aren't necessarily true. As the old saying goes............Don't believe everything you hear.

[coolsports]

Crossbar.....how do you know a Harvard player had academic trouble meeting NCAA requirements? Do you work in the NCAA office? How would you have seen any of the transcripts. There's a lot of things that people report that aren't necessarily true. As the old saying goes............Don't believe everything you hear.

I'm going to have to side with Crossbar on this one. It is a pretty well known that there is a player on the Harvard team that was very highly sought after, see the national roster, but has really struggled with the academic's. Great player but she could not get through at least one other Ivy school that I know of. I think knowing her roomate this past year gives me a little insight. It is also known that another player brought in this year is looked at more to help the team's overall academic standing than for her on ice skill. I hope not but we will see if this player gets any ice or is even on the bench.
I don't make any judgements because all the Ivy's play the game.

[over rated]

Its not clear that all Ivy schools do play that game but you have confirmed that Harvard does. Are you familiar with another instance where this has been true at an Ivy?

[HU2K4]

Perhaps not gospel for all situations, but I don't think the entire content of this book is directed at just one of the member institutions.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0972202668/002-8595711-9073610?v=glance

[videohockey]

Excellent link & rescource! My daughter is in communication with Yale and other regular D1 schools. This should be an interesting read!

[dave1381]

To clear up a few things that seem to have been misconstrued here -- I don't know of any examples of Harvard players struggling to meet *NCAA* academic requirements. We're talking about *IVY* requirements, in particular *Harvard* requirements which are the most stringent because Harvard has the toughest academic index targets among the Ivies, since they're based on the distribution of the grades/scores from the entire admitted class.

In addition, when we talk about "struggling academically" here, we're talking about meeting arbitrary admission standards, not about actual performance once they get to college [the book previously linked has a nice discussion of why the Ivy system sucks, how it gives incentive to take those who just test well rather than those who are the best fit overall, how perhaps the problems Bowen brought up in The Game of Life are partially the result of the incentives of the crappy system he himself created as Princeton Prez]. From what I've heard, the individual under scrutiny here has done just fine academically at Harvard thus far. I think of a similar example, Reka Cserny from the women's basketball team, who didn't have the easiest time getting the English scores necessary to get into Harvard. Four years later, she's an Ivy Player of the Year and an Academic All-American. Also that book observes, Bill Bradley could not have gotten into Princeton under the current standards, a Rhodes scholar, senator, and NBA player.

[ARM]

Also that book observes, Bill Bradley could not have gotten into Princeton under the current standards, a Rhodes scholar, senator, and NBA player.
While I understand the point that you are making, I'm not sure that either senator nor NBA player necessarily indicates great intelligence.

[hockeyyfan]

While I understand the point that you are making, I'm not sure that either senator nor NBA player necessarily indicates great intelligence.
don't confuse 'senators' in general with 'senators from massachusetts'......I think the Rhodes Scholar might be the tipoff maybe he's got some smarts

[sk8happy]

One additional point, if you read the linked book, you'll discover that the Ivies institute the much discussed but often confusing "AI" or academic index. Essentially they use GPA, class rank and standardized test scores to attach a statistical rating to each applicant.
All of the Ivies use this system and mutually agree not to admit anyone below a determined rating number which they term the "floor." Of course as is often the case with any rating system there are "gray" areas or "wiggle room" due to the widely varying grading systems across North America and the fact that many public schools and some private schools don't give out class rank.
Each Ivy league school has an "average" based upon the rating scores of all students that are admitted and attend each year. Harvard's is the highest as Dave points out, by a slim margin over Yale & Princeton. Each athletic team, in this case the hockey programs, are then required to attract a class of recruits who's individual ratings collectively average a fixed number which is one standard deviation below the schools average.
This is where the "gamesmanship" really comes in. High index rated athletes for example are termed "boosters." In otherwords, they might not be a potential starter or in some cases even make your squad, but they have such a high index rating that Ivy league coaches will recruit them to offset some of their lower rated kids. Simply put, they "boost" your index rating.
In my experience, each Ivy league institution varies it's approach to how coaches use these index boosters. It's a silly numbers game. Some schools require their coaches to find their own boosters; some admissions offices believe it or not will give coaches the names of applicants with near perfect index scores who have listed "hockey" for example as a sport they play..

The irony of the index is that it tends to be easier for a school like Harvard....
versus say a school like Brown to meet their averages. Although Harvard's athletic index is higher than Browns, they also get far more applicants who have near perfect index scores than a school like Brown does. By adding one or two near perfect index boosters to a recruited list of athletes you can quickly offset a couple of "index floor" admits..

[ARM]

I think the Rhodes Scholar might be the tipoff maybe he's got some smarts
Hockeyyfan, I was following the custom of these boards and conveniently ignoring that which did not support my point.

[brookyone]

don't confuse 'senators' in general with 'senators from massachusetts'......I think the Rhodes Scholar might be the tipoff maybe he's got some smarts
Would it be inflammatory to say I remain unconvinced? :confused: :)