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ScoobyDoo
05-30-2005, 11:02 AM
Marlene Zuk: Grade 'em high in self-esteem, low in realism
Marlene Zuk
May 30, 2005 ZUK0530



"Is this one right?" The student points to a line on a test paper and peers anxiously at me. The exam is two days away, and I have given the class a version from a previous year so that the students can see what kinds of questions to expect.

"No," I say gently, "that's not right," and proceed to explain what is wrong with the answer she wrote. Questions 2, 3, 4 and 5 suffer the same fate, but No. 6 is, in fact, correct, and I tell her so. She beams. "Oh, great, I feel better. I'm really getting it!"

That the course -- animal behavior -- is one in which quantitative reasoning is important only makes her unfounded optimism more alarming.

Her reaction is not unusual. In the face of all evidence to the contrary, my students exhibit an unswerving confidence in their own abilities. They earnestly assure me that despite test scores in the single digits and an inability to answer questions posed by their teaching assistant, they really know the material: "It just doesn't show in my grades." The implied fault, no doubt, is mine, for giving such unfair and inappropriate exams, but it is never clear just why they do think they understand the material.

They readily confess to me that they have not consulted the text and do not remember my lecture. They have nothing to say about the concepts we've covered. Yet somehow, a kernel of faith stays resolutely sheltered in each undergraduate bosom -- they believe honestly and with conviction that they get it, and therefore deserve a high grade.

Don't get me wrong. I hardly expect all students to understand the material immediately, or even ever, and I also realize that my teaching could be confusing or badly organized. Wrong answers are part of the game. What I find troubling is the lack of concern about their ignorance or poor performance, the epidemic of what a colleague of mine calls unwarranted self-regard.

On that same practice test, another student came to me with a problem she had tried to solve; it required comparing two lines on a graph, each of which represented the number of eggs laid by a different group of individuals (female blackbirds nesting in male territories either with or without additional females).

The question asked where a point on one of the lines satisfied a particular condition, and only one answer was correct. The student for some reason had redrawn the lines, as if rewriting the birds' reproductive history, with the two lines suddenly veering off into a fantasy of communal egg-laying. It was as if she had taken a graph of the exports of China and France and merged them into a new country with a single product.

Once again, I explained how to answer the question, and once again the student was pleased. The error was just a trivial difference of opinion. "Yeah, I get it," she said. "I was just thinking of it differently." You say tomayto, I say tomahto.

No, I wanted to say, you weren't thinking of it differently, you had it completely wrong; you didn't understand it at all. But like her many compatriots, she was unlikely to acknowledge that, or admit to a mistake even when she created a version of reality never seen on a map, or in the actions of a blackbird.

Students have always deluded themselves, of course, and hope has always sprung eternal, or at least until final grades appear. And at least some in my classes really do eventually master the material. But confident placidity in the face of error seems to be on the rise.

Maybe it's all that self-esteem this generation of students was inculcated with as youngsters, or maybe it's the emphasis on respecting everyone else's opinion, to the point where no answer, even a mathematical one, can be truly wrong because that might offend the one who gave it. Maybe they think they should never let me see them sweat.

These explanations all seem too facile as I gaze into their smiling faces and feel like an academic Cassandra, predicting doom and disaster where they see only cheer. As graduation nears, I wonder whether they will become surgeons happily removing the wrong organs or just sales clerks unconcernedly giving incorrect change.

Be worried, I want to tell them. Then I realize they don't know the meaning of the word.

Marlene Zuk, a biology professor at the University of California, Riverside, wrote this article for the Los Angeles Times.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5427636.html

redwing77
05-30-2005, 11:18 AM
Pish Posh. Pro-NCLBers would say that the teacher in question is indeed at fault for not teaching the material in such a way that they would be able to figure out the answers on questions that are as meaningful to them as the mating habits of blackbirds versus the African swallow (unladen).

The fact is that the testing aspect of NCLB is a disaster in practice but beautiful in theory.

But that's how it is. I swore a personal pledge to myself that, in my classroom, I would never teach to the test. Maybe that same pledge will eventually kick me out of the classroom. I don't know, but I owe the kids I teach an education, not an experience in detached trivia.

Patman
05-30-2005, 11:43 AM
I have no problems leaving morons behind in the college setting. I have no problem doing the same in any other setting. If any of you have to TA you really see a real quality class of idiots, which is just plain unfair to the smart kids that work hard in the classes.

BTW, NCLB has nothing to do with this but rather years of the acceptance of partial credit at all costs and just plain ol' working the teacher/prof. at all levels. We all want to be nice to these kids so its much easier to give in then to disappoint people.

Of course, when nobody comes to my office hours I don't mind that they fail.

-----

Oh... in regards to teaching the test... my mother works at a Grades 1-4 school (aide assigned to a blind child with mental handicaps and a Hmong background, I swear my mother loves stress)... they've engineered an entire grade to teach just two subjects or so (I can't recall which) in order to jack up the standardized test scores. The teachers have to sneak other material into the classes using those 2 subjects as gateways. It should be noted that this is at the behest of the principal with power/control issues related to a visual disorder. He managed to artificially inflate scores by doing this and now they are having the teachers conduct conferences for other teachers to show their "successful" methods since they are considered the "model" school... what an absolute farce.

I favor some form of initiative to improve education, but when you have unscrupulous administrators it all goes to hell.

rufus
05-30-2005, 11:59 AM
They readily confess to me that they have not consulted the text and do not remember my lecture. They have nothing to say about the concepts we've covered. Yet somehow, a kernel of faith stays resolutely sheltered in each undergraduate bosom -- they believe honestly and with conviction that they get it, and therefore deserve a high grade.

Don't get me wrong. I hardly expect all students to understand the material immediately, or even ever, and I also realize that my teaching could be confusing or badly organized. Wrong answers are part of the game. What I find troubling is the lack of concern about their ignorance or poor performance, the epidemic of what a colleague of mine calls unwarranted self-regard.

i wonder how much of this correlates with the growth of programs that are supposed to help raise the self-esteem of children in schools? from what i've seen from most kids today, they're not lacking much in the self-esteem department. in other areas, well.....................

ScoobyDoo
05-30-2005, 12:21 PM
All you really need to know is the answers to a simple reading and math test. Everything else in life is subjective, especially science.

NCLB for the win.

dropthatpuck
05-30-2005, 01:26 PM
{insert pic of broken record here}

bronconick
05-30-2005, 01:46 PM
This is one hell of a reach.

This has a lot more to do with passing kids through grades regardless of whether they're ready, giving them nice grades based on a curve, and telling them all they can do whatever they want, and anyone that tells them otherwise is wrong, then NCLB.

Jesus, Scooby, NCLB wasn't even in effect when these kids were in elementary/middle school. You hate it. We get the point.

ScoobyDoo
05-30-2005, 02:45 PM
This is one hell of a reach.

This has a lot more to do with passing kids through grades regardless of whether they're ready, giving them nice grades based on a curve, and telling them all they can do whatever they want, and anyone that tells them otherwise is wrong, then NCLB.

Jesus, Scooby, NCLB wasn't even in effect when these kids were in elementary/middle school. You hate it. We get the point.
The premise of the thread is that NCLB fixes this problem. So, I never STATED that the problem didn't exist before NCLB now, did I? No, I did not.

Thank you for posting.

bronconick
05-30-2005, 03:07 PM
The premise of the thread is that NCLB fixes this problem. So, I never STATED that the problem didn't exist before NCLB now, did I? No, I did not.

Thank you for posting.

Actually, the premise of this thread is so you can snivel, whine, and complain about an unrelated unfunded mandate.

Next time, just make yourself an "Official Scooby complains about NCLB thread" and be done with it, instead of hiding it behind an actual news article.

You're more and more like the same politicians you decry every day.

ScoobyDoo
05-30-2005, 04:01 PM
Actually, the premise of this thread is so you can snivel, whine, and complain about an unrelated unfunded mandate.

Next time, just make yourself an "Official Scooby complains about NCLB thread" and be done with it, instead of hiding it behind an actual news article.

You're more and more like the same politicians you decry every day.
Unrelated? Hardly. I can draw parallels to it from here to doomsday.

XYZ
05-30-2005, 04:54 PM
Unrelated? Hardly. I can draw parallels to it from here to doomsday.

Where are your solutions?

redwing77
05-30-2005, 09:22 PM
Where are your solutions?

1. Withdraw the whole thing from the board and send it back to be rewritten by people who actually know what it is like to be in the classrooms they wish to affect. This will include ESL and Special Needs (including gifted and talented) teachers.

2. Eliminate special interests within the law. This mainly has to do with the testing contingent.

3. Rate the test scores of a particular school's class with the same kids' scores from the year before. If they show improvement, then that is good. A teacher should not be held accountable if different students come in and score differently than the previous year's students because each class in each year is different.

4. Eliminate the double standard. Just because there are few males in Elementary school doesn't mean you should lessen the standards for that gender to entice them to come into the classroom. RL experience in the subject area is wonderful, give bonuses to those people, but still require them to obtain a teacher's certificate.

5. Accountability should go all the way full circle. If teachers are accountable, so should the parents and the administrators. Parents educate their children far more than teachers ever will.

If I think of more, I will post more.

Craig P.
05-30-2005, 10:46 PM
Somewhat OT...

...I thought of Scooby when one of the extemp questions in the NCFL tournament was about NCLB. :)

(I'm pretty sure it was in the octofinal round that I judged...)

ScoobyDoo
05-31-2005, 08:42 AM
Where are your solutions?
How about we start with keeping the Feds out of education? :eek:

LynahFan
05-31-2005, 08:54 AM
I guess I must be one of those dumb, undereducated people whose lives have been ruined by NCLB (even though I graduated from high school in 1990), because I also cannot see any link between this article and NCLB. I think I'll go cry in shame now to save Scooby the trouble of insulting me.

ScoobyDoo
05-31-2005, 08:58 AM
I guess I must be one of those dumb, undereducated people whose lives have been ruined by NCLB (even though I graduated from high school in 1990), because I also cannot see any link between this article and NCLB. I think I'll go cry in shame now to save Scooby the trouble of insulting me.
You obviously didn't attend public school in a place that reinforced what NCLB is mandating.

The Sicatoka
05-31-2005, 09:20 AM
The Constitution doesn't say the Federal Government has power over education so here I have to agree with Scooby.

NCLB was unheard of when those college students (with high self-esteem and no substance behind it) would have been affected by it.

"Eliminate special interests within the law." <--- Sadly, never has a more utopian statement been uttered. (Sorry rw.)

St. Clown
05-31-2005, 09:30 AM
You obviously didn't attend public school in a place that reinforced what NCLB is mandating.
Well, simply put, neither did you. Such a program as NCLB was in place when I graduated in 95, and you're older than me.

The real solution to this, the only way to truly make schools strictly about education of facts and learning the ability to analyze something objectively, is take all of gov't out of the schools - not just the Federales. But that'll never happen.

ScoobyDoo
05-31-2005, 09:31 AM
Well, simply put, neither did you. Such a program as NCLB was in place when I graduated in 95, and you're older than me.

The real solution to this, the only way to truly make schools strictly about education of facts and learning the ability to analyze something objectively, is take all of gov't out of the schools - not just the Federales. But that'll never happen.
Yes I did.

It's a concept, not just a law. And that concept is wrong.

LynahFan
05-31-2005, 09:39 AM
You obviously didn't attend public school in a place that reinforced what NCLB is mandating.
Depends. I did attend a public school and my teachers had pretty widely varying philosophies - my math and chemistry techers definitely taught toward the AP tests (to the point that my AP chem teacher actually put up statistics from past years to show what kinds of questions to expect), while my English/History teachers didn't seem to know that the test existed, and my physics teacher would have been too dumb to have passed any standardized test himself. As far as I know, the teachers were not in any way "graded" or rewarded/punished on how well their students did on any standardized tests.

My chem teacher was also my favorite teacher in high school, but that was largely because of her personality not necessarily her teaching philosophy. She could usually coax 5's out of about half the students in the class (similar for our BC calc class), while the English and History teachers didn't do nearly as well, and only 3 of us even bothered to take the AP physics test since we didn't actually learn any physics in class.

There's a huge difference between an AP test and a minimum-standards test like the NCLB. I definitely have no problem with "teaching to" an AP test - I don't care how much rote drilling and how many "test strategy" tricks you learn, if you don't understand the material, you won't get a 5 on an AP test. I'm less enthusiastic about teaching to a minimum-standards test, because you'll be dumbing it down below the level of many students.