Title IX

[BLW]

From another source.

DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WEAKENS TITLE IX
submitted by Doug Parry

03/25/05 - Special Release

New guidance released Friday by the Department of Education makes it
easy for schools to escape their responsibility under Title IX to
provide equal athletic opportunities for women and men, the National
Women’s Law Center has said.

In the past, there were rigorous requirements for schools to demonstrate
that they were treating women fairly and did not need to add more sports
for them. The new Title IX policy guidance gives schools an easy out by
allowing them simply to send email surveys to their female students that
ask what additional sports they have the interest in and ability to
play. If the responses do not show enough interest or ability, then a
school is presumed to be in compliance with Title IX. Schools also can
assume that lack of response to the survey means lack of interest in
increased sports opportunities.

“How many people open, let alone respond, to e-mail surveys?” said
Marcia D. Greenberger, NWLC Co-President. “This is simply an underhanded
way to weaken Title IX and make it easy for schools that aren’t
interested in providing equal opportunity for women to skirt the law.”

Under the new guidance, the Department of Education will provide schools
with this e-mail survey – or “model survey.” The survey is inherently
flawed, according to the NWLC, because it presumes a survey alone can
accurately measure student interests. The guidance does not require
schools to look at other factors they once had to consider, such as
coaches’ and administrators’ opinions or women’s participation in sports
in surrounding high schools or recreational leagues.

NCAA President Myles Brand also was disappointed with the clarification,
in regards to the use of the e-mail survey as a measure of interest in
athletics.

“I am disappointed in the way the Department of Education promulgated
its clarification of Title IX regulations with regard to determining the
interest level of females in athletics. The department issued its
clarification without benefit of public discussion and input,” he said.

“The e-mail survey suggested in the clarification will not provide an
adequate indicator of interest among young women to participate in
college sports, nor does it encourage young women to participate — a
failure that will likely stymie the growth of women’s athletics and
could reverse the progress made over the last three decades. One need
only observe the Division I Women’s Basketball Championship that is
underway to understand the effect of encouragement for women to
participate, the high level of play at which women compete and the
public interest in women’s athletics.”

Despite the fact that females make up half or more of students in high
schools and colleges, they still receive only about 41 percent of the
sports participation opportunities.

The issuance of this policy guidance is the latest move in a years-long
attempt to weaken Title IX, says the NWLC. The Bush Administration’s
Commission on Opportunity in Athletics in 2002 made several
recommendations that would have weakened Title IX, but the Commission
pulled back after significant public outcry.

For the OCR information, please go to:

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/title9guidanceadditional.html


Parts of this article were contributed by the National Women’s Law
Center and the NCAA.

[Hux]

Despite what many would like to claim, the country is not out of the economic doldrums just yet. As such the government, at both the state and local levels are looking for any ways they can to save money. Those in power at that level, who are responsible for passing the budgets for state universities and colleges, have squawked to their colleagues on Capital Hill, and have been heard.

I see this as the Fed's (GOP really) way of helping the state governement penny pinch. And of course there is also bound to be a healthy dose of old school, anti-women in sports, lets protect the cash resources and keep it flowing to the mens teams, mentality as well.

On a side note: A survey was done last year at the high school in town, and it was found that girls in the school would love to have a volleyball team. The athletic department mulled it over, and decided not to go forth with a team, and are now being sued under Title IX.

[dave1381]

Donna DeVerona also brought this up at the Kazmaier dinner two weeks ago.

For those who are interested, here's one instance of the opposing viewpoint, from USA wrestling: http://www.themat.com/pressbox/pressdetail.asp?aid=12069

The right thing to do, as usual, lies somewhere in between the extremes. The above article is right that women's Groups - i.e. WSF, NCLW, etc. - have typically been hostile to most clarifications to the third prong of Title IX compliance (accomodate the interests of students), and that forces more schools to comply with prong one (proportionality, the quota), even though these groups always claim not to endorse quotas. HOWEVER, reducing prong three compliance to just a simple one-time email survey is ridiculous. I agree there needs to be some more clarity in complying with prong three, but the one chosen is far too fluffy.

Part of the irrationality of Title IX enforcement is looking at individual points in time rather than more long-term trends. Things like interests and gender ratios in total enrollment and athletic enrollment can be volatile over time, and it makes no sense to say that a school is in or out of compliance based on one point in time. Saying a school complies with prong three just because the result of one survey is just as dumb as this one school a few years back that cut two members of the men's swim team one day because two women's swimmers had quit the week before.

Title IX brings up some interesting questions. The timing issues in the previous paragraph are one example. What does interest mean exactly, because everyone is more interested in a sport that exists with scholarship opportunities than one that doesn't exist? In the long run, if female enrollment in colleges continues to rise to the point of women outnumbering men 60-40, is a 60-40 ratio in athletic participation sensible as well?

Unfortunately, as with your typical political issue, most Title IX discussions involve the opposite extremes providing their talking points, and the search for rational solutions in between is rarely ever developed.

[dave1381]

Despite what many would like to claim, the country is not out of the economic doldrums just yet. As such the government, at both the state and local levels are looking for any ways they can to save money.
Me thinks the powers that be are looking for ways to cut spending, regardless of the state of the economy.

[Hux]

Me thinks the powers that be are looking for ways to cut spending, regardless of the state of the economy.

Yes, that is probably true too.

[scores]

The bottom line is someday these women playing sports in college are going to have kids and putting one sex against the other is wrong. I will say if you speak with female athelete's they do not want to see male athlete's being cut because female athlete's quit a team is's unrational. It's sad that it has all come down to this behavior and I think institutions should accept both male & female athelete's and all interest. What I would like to see them do is put more presidence on accademic's and if a team in the institution is not pulling it's weight in the class room then pull the scholarships from that team.
I bet you'll get better results from schools like Michigan, Michigan State ... They do not want to see the basketball/football teams tank.
Think about what actually could happen....women athlete's tend to be better students not in all cases but for the most part.. I am a male that played college hockey but I have a daughter playing now..

[hockeyyfan]

I bet you'll get better results from schools like Michigan, Michigan State ... They do not want to see the basketball/football teams tank...

If you look at Michigan's latest filing...where they claim 129 or so women participating in rowing...you can tend to lose faith in their sincerity and forthrightness. You hate to see anyone lose the opportunity to play any sports regardless of gender, but parents of girls pay as much in taxes as parents of boys. The concept of an email to women students is lame....how do you email a female who didn't come to a school due to lack of athletic opportunities. It's akin to emailing the survivors of the Titanic then claiming no deaths. It's bizarre. I have both a son and daughter who have/will play intercollegiate sports but neither for scholarships. Hey, football and hoops pay the bills, but get real on reporting.

[camman15]

If you look at Michigan's latest filing...where they claim 129 or so women participating in rowing...you can tend to lose faith in their sincerity and forthrightness. You hate to see anyone lose the opportunity to play any sports regardless of gender, but parents of girls pay as much in taxes as parents of boys. The concept of an email to women students is lame....how do you email a female who didn't come to a school due to lack of athletic opportunities. It's akin to emailing the survivors of the Titanic then claiming no deaths. It's bizarre. I have both a son and daughter who have/will play intercollegiate sports but neither for scholarships. Hey, football and hoops pay the bills, but get real on reporting.

Good point on how schools "fudge" the participation rate numbers and why should it surprise anyone that a MSU type of school is involved?,.....bottom line is that in most colleges/universities, female athletes are not being treated fairly and it's disheartening that in so many cases, their coaches aren't willing to fight for these women athletes when it comes to their rights and opportunities,.....

[Happy]

If you look at Michigan's latest filing...where they claim 129 or so women participating in rowing...you can tend to lose faith in their sincerity and forthrightness. You hate to see anyone lose the opportunity to play any sports regardless of gender, but parents of girls pay as much in taxes as parents of boys. The concept of an email to women students is lame....how do you email a female who didn't come to a school due to lack of athletic opportunities. It's akin to emailing the survivors of the Titanic then claiming no deaths. It's bizarre. I have both a son and daughter who have/will play intercollegiate sports but neither for scholarships. Hey, football and hoops pay the bills, but get real on reporting.


where is your proof they fudged?

[dave1381]

where is your proof they fudged?
oh c'mon... think about it, in NCAA crew championship you row two eights and a four... that's 20 people (okay, plus the cox, they're people too, just little ones :)). Are you really complying with Title IX if you have 6 times as many rowers as you need, in lieu of starting a new program?

[ARM]

I was surprised when I read this, but apparently rowing does have huge numbers. Per this article: The Gophers' roster typically numbers 70 to 90 in the fall and 50 to 60 in the spring, and the team has the full complement of 20 scholarships.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/512/5344889.html

[hockeyyfan]

where is your proof they fudged?

Go to the UM website and count the number of women actually listed on the roster.....you get in the low 30's.....double that for the 'novice' squad.....and you are nowhere NEAR 129...I'm not contesting they are hard working and participate in a valuable component of their college experience and I hope some are on scholarship but 129 is suspect.

[Happy]

oh c'mon... think about it, in NCAA crew championship you row two eights and a four... that's 20 people (okay, plus the cox, they're people too, just little ones :)). Are you really complying with Title IX if you have 6 times as many rowers as you need, in lieu of starting a new program?

last I checked, you only need 22 players for a football team, and they have a huge number on the roster.

Hey, I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers are a joke, but I wanted to know why. I had a Friend on the gopher rowing team back in the old days, he liked it cause it didn't cut too much into his drinking time. He treated it as a good drinking club, and got a little exercise in every day.

[ARM]

Happy, The Gopher men's rowing team is still club, so it wouldn't surprise me if they took it less seriously than those on a D-I program.

[pal7]

Oh...haven't we beaten this title 9 thing to death yet?
It is what is it is...get over it!
Talking about it on this site isn't going to make a difference...what difference do you want to make anyway?
If you are good enough you play, if not you don't. You are never, ever, ever going to get things being "Equal" between men and women's sports.
They don't play the same, they don't draw the same and they (women) sure don't have any "bringing in the crowds" pro teams, and please don't bring up soccer. Colleges need money to run and sporting events is one way of getting it, e.g. men's hockey, football and basketball.
It is a lot better for women and sports than is has been or ever will be as far as I'm concerned...let's celebrate all the advances for women and all the sports that they have been able to contribute to and how the colleges are finally giving support...not equal, but support. THE END!

[FerrisLives]

Maybe the e-mail survey might be good for some facets of Women's hockey. I'm guessing a survey of women at some schools, take Michigan and Michigan State would show a greater interest in hockey than rowing. Womens Crew is a sport that annoys me, because it is a sport that doesn't exist for Women at the high school level in Michigan, yet both Michigan and Michigan State play it anyway ignoring the demographics that show that Michigan women play hockey in much greater numbers than they ever will in rowing. Rowing is a cop out for schools to show they are in the proportionality compliance without actually meeting the needs of female athletes. Simple compliance is meaningless if it is just a number and the schools don't actually take any time to play sports that women in the state are actually interested in. So in the state of Michigan women get a raw deal on scholarship opportunities in hockey just so the University of Michigan can show simple compliance with the percentage of prong 1 of Title IX by the superior numbers that a Rowing team has.

[dave1381]

Talking about it on this site isn't going to make a difference...what difference do you want to make anyway?
By this logic, there's no point for this discussion board to exist. I talk about it because I want people to be informed. Title IX doesn't provide exemptions to sports if they're profitable. As for women's sports' lack ability to draw, I have no doubt they'd do better if they hadn't been discriminated against throughout history prior to the 70s. Not as well as men, but better.

[camman15]

Oh...haven't we beaten this title 9 thing to death yet?
It is what is it is...get over it!
Talking about it on this site isn't going to make a difference...what difference do you want to make anyway?
If you are good enough you play, if not you don't. You are never, ever, ever going to get things being "Equal" between men and women's sports.
They don't play the same, they don't draw the same and they (women) sure don't have any "bringing in the crowds" pro teams, and please don't bring up soccer. Colleges need money to run and sporting events is one way of getting it, e.g. men's hockey, football and basketball.
It is a lot better for women and sports than is has been or ever will be as far as I'm concerned...let's celebrate all the advances for women and all the sports that they have been able to contribute to and how the colleges are finally giving support...not equal, but support. THE END!

What's the person who posted the above thinking???,.....equity IS ONLY part of what Title IX really is,.....THE LAW, THE LAW, THE LAW,.....FYI, it has nothing to do with how good your team is or how many fans come to the game, or HOW MUCH MONEY A CERTAIN TEAM MAKES,.....here's an easy way to look at Title IX; if a school has a student population of 10,000 students and 8,000 are women, then for every dollar in the athletic budget, 80 cents SHOULD BE going to the women's sports teams,.....that doesn't happen and schools are continuously finding ways to delay giving women those $$$, that is until the NCAA comes around to audit compliance,.....then what you see is schools taking drastic measures to "catch up" with all of a sudden dropping men's programs and all of a sudden adding scholarships to women's sports teams fo starters,.....you want to give men more $$$, a school must first look at the breakdown of gender on the campus; IT'S THE LAW,.....

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

here's an easy way to look at Title IX; if a school has a student population of 10,000 students and 8,000 are women, then for every dollar in the athletic budget, 80 cents SHOULD BE going to the women's sports teams,.....Here's why I'm against Title IX...why should a team that brings that money in not get more? Let me put it this way...if women's basketball brings in the most money why shouldn't they get more funding? Even on a campus that is 60% male. They earned it

For the record, I'm a supporter of women's sports. I forgot who said it, but I do think that women's sports would fare better today if it weren't for the 70's...

[binnyrus]

Here's why I'm against Title IX...why should a team that brings that money in not get more? Let me put it this way...if women's basketball brings in the most money why shouldn't they get more funding? Even on a campus that is 60% male. They earned it

For the record, I'm a supporter of women's sports. I forgot who said it, but I do think that women's sports would fare better today if it weren't for the 70's...

Let's put it this way: you couldn't be a "supporter of women's sports" if it weren't for Title IX.