European Soccer Part XIII

[FerrisLives]

Originally posted by Rhett
There's an awful thread on BigSoccer right now where the US Men's team is described as the Red Sox and England Men's team as the Yankees... try to wrap your mind around all of the things wrong with that statement. :eek:

Worse, it wasn't started by a n00b... it was started by a mod! :eek: :eek:

What's England won lately? Yeah, that's right. Nothing. No European championships. No World Cups. Nothing. In the last 3 decades. Denmark has won more major championships in the last 3 decades than England. And the one World Cup England won in 1966, they were the hosts.

[Don King]

Originally posted by Bob Gray
Comparing Arsenal to the Red Sox? I'd say Chelski or Newcastle are a better fit, as they're always close to winning and really should win every so often, but haven't won much of anything in a long while. But Arsenal have only won 3 FA Cups and 3 EPL titles (assuming this year stays on course) in the last 6 years or so. Hardly Red Soxesque!

Bob-- That's what *I* said! :D But he does not listen.

[Rhett]

This is the "Red Sox" thread (Caution, it is mind damagingly retarded): http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103740

US Fans = the "Red Sox Fans of Football" compared to England (NY Yankees)

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So it seems. For the people in other countries not familiar, I'll lay down the background for you.

The Boston Red Sox are a baseball team. They usually have a pretty good team. They have awesome pitching in Pedro Martinez, a terrific short stop with Nomar Garciaparra (who is married to US woman's soccer star Mia Hamm) and a great power hitter with Manny Ramirez. They also have a good bullpen and a terrific ballpark in Fenway field, which sits right in the heart of Boston's backbay. There are loads of bars, from Boston Beerworks (try their raspberry beer!) to Jillians to all sorts of clubs and a mall.

The Red Sox came very close to winning the World Series (US baseball championship) back in I believe it was 1986. However the ball rolled right between the first baseman's legs, and effectively ruined the Red Sox campaign as I think they only needed that out to win the series. Many people attribute that and other losses to the "Curse of the Bambino", which, if I remember correctly, is due to the Red Sox trading away Babe Ruth way way way back when to the NY Yankees.

Here's the problem. The New York Yankees are the top baseball team in teh US. for the past 10 years, they've won more titles than any other ball club. They have a rich owner, live in the country's biggest city and are generally arrogant jerks. And Boston Red Sox fans absolutely HATE the Yankees. They (Yankees) always one-up them and it's an obsession. If you go to a Patriots game (gridiron), Boston fans will chant "Yankees Suck!" If you go to a Celtics game (basketball), Boston fans will chant "Yankees Suck!" If you go to a Bruins game (Hockey), Boston fans will chant "Yankees Suck!" Boston fans live just to see that Yankee fans are miserable... even if they're not around and not even thinking about them. I went to a Celtics game once, this guy had on a I Love NY t-shirt and the fans heckled HIM isntead of the Mavericks, the team the Celtics were playing against!!! The camera showed on him and the entire stadium errupted into... you guessed it... "Yankees Suck!"

Now you may ask... "Alex, why the hell have you rambled on and on about baseball in a football forum?" Because the US team fans really are more or less the equivalent to the Boston Red Sox fans. In a match that has nothing to do with them (England vs. Sweden), they are so obsessed with England, they will chant against them in their misfortune. They aren't totally there yet, but it's only a matter of time. Signs to look for:

1: If both teams qualify for the World Cup, US fans will take more delight in an England loss than a US victory.
2: US fans will chant "England sucks" in world cup qualifiers against Grenada, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc.
3: US fans start to hollar "Cowboy Up" in the last 10 minutes of the football matches when their team is level or down a goal.
4: The US wins a match against a team England loses to, they will conclude out of thin air that they are by default the better team.
5: US fans will spend $20 a pop for shirts that read "Bend over Beckham... Landon's coming to town!"

Agree? Disagree? Okay then, who are the "Red Sox" fans of football?

[Craig P.]

OK, so they were after the "fan" angle, but it's still daft -- as far as I know, the U.S. is far more likely to develop that kind of rivalry with Mexico than we are with England, whom we seldom play against. It's not even close to existing now.

[Bob Gray]

My general experience with US fans is that they tend to like and root for the English team, unless of course they play the U.S.

[Jimjamesak]

Originally posted by Craig P.
OK, so they were after the "fan" angle, but it's still daft -- as far as I know, the U.S. is far more likely to develop that kind of rivalry with Mexico than we are with England, whom we seldom play against. It's not even close to existing now.
Yeah we definately have a real good rivalry starting with Mexico, and when was the last time we played England? 94?

[BigPieps]

I like Totti.

[BadgerAlum@WMU]

Originally posted by Rhett
1: If both teams qualify for the World Cup, US fans will take more delight in an England loss than a US victory.
2: US fans will chant "England sucks" in world cup qualifiers against Grenada, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc.
3: US fans start to hollar "Cowboy Up" in the last 10 minutes of the football matches when their team is level or down a goal.
4: The US wins a match against a team England loses to, they will conclude out of thin air that they are by default the better team.
5: US fans will spend $20 a pop for shirts that read "Bend over Beckham... Landon's coming to town!"



I don't think so. :D

1: probably not. It would be more likely that we would continue to support whatever teams we'd been supporting outside the US. (I went to watch a couple of matches involving Mexico in 2002 in the Parent dorm at Université Laval in Quebec. My Mexican French-course classmates were so drunk they were getting sick in the middle of the first half.)

2: We'll be more likely to chant "la migra" at a game with any of those teams.

3: I've never heard anyone chant "Cowboy Up!" at a game.

4. This is possible...Americans are constantly trying to make themselves look better in the long run.

5. I'd buy that shirt. :D

[Bob Gray]

Bad news for the rest of the EPL as ManU, according to reports, has begun to shop Diego Forlan around (Kleberson as well). Why it's taken this long I'll never know (maybe SAF couldn't admit his mistake in acquiring Forlan), but Forlan has become such a fixture in blowing games for ManU, that if this comes to fruition, it will instantly bolster ManU's title credentials for next season. Let's hope it's just idle media speculation!

[Nathan]

Kleberson already? Surprising, though he hasn't played as well as I thought he would.

[BW0683]

Originally posted by Bob Gray
Bad news for the rest of the EPL as ManU, according to reports, has begun to shop Diego Forlan around (Kleberson as well). Why it's taken this long I'll never know (maybe SAF couldn't admit his mistake in acquiring Forlan), but Forlan has become such a fixture in blowing games for ManU, that if this comes to fruition, it will instantly bolster ManU's title credentials for next season. Let's hope it's just idle media speculation!

Ahh...only game he ever won for them was last year vs. Chelsea, 90th minute winner...the shame of it all :(

[Bob Gray]

Originally posted by Nathan
Kleberson already? Surprising, though he hasn't played as well as I thought he would.
The article I read said that Kleberson's family hadn't settled well in England and that was influencing the situation.


If I recall correctly, Forlan also scored two goals to beat Liverpool a couple years ago, which probably led to him being given a lot more chances.

[Rhett]

Originally posted by Bob Gray
Bad news for the rest of the EPL as ManU, according to reports, has begun to shop Diego Forlan around (Kleberson as well). Why it's taken this long I'll never know (maybe SAF couldn't admit his mistake in acquiring Forlan), but Forlan has become such a fixture in blowing games for ManU, that if this comes to fruition, it will instantly bolster ManU's title credentials for next season. Let's hope it's just idle media speculation!

Does anyone else think that Bayer 04 Leverkusen would be a perfect destination for Forlan? He would fit that team perfectly, they're almost made for each other. It's a shame it will probably never happen.;)

[Terrierbyassociation]

Rhett: All of that is such BS. I think the only country we hate is Mexico. The Mexican national team played so dirty in that WC game, even my friends that were Mexican couldn't watch the game. I did :D

I am a US Citizen now, naturalized though I was born in England.

England first. Then the US. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone disliking the England National Team. We haven't won since 66! How can you hate us? We don't even dislike you!

Whoever wrote that is on crack. Good crack.

[BW0683]

Originally posted by Terrierbyassociation
Rhett: All of that is such BS. I think the only country we hate is Mexico. The Mexican national team played so dirty in that WC game, even my friends that were Mexican couldn't watch the game. I did :D

I am a US Citizen now, naturalized though I was born in England.

England first. Then the US. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone disliking the England National Team. We haven't won since 66! How can you hate us? We don't even dislike you!

Whoever wrote that is on crack. Good crack.

My girlfriend was in England during the 2002 World Cup (racing in the Henley rigatta) and she brought me back a bunch of newspapers. The day that the US and England both went out, England's loss was (obviously) front page news, but the back page story was the US loss with the headline "Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse..."

Now I don't know if it was US love or hatred for the Germans who beat us, but I certainly saw it as England caring for the US team.

[Terrierbyassociation]

Hatred for the Germans, and we like the US, behind our team of course. ;)

[Don King]

I remember Michael Davies' 6th reason that Americans might actually want to give a crap about Japorea '02:

6. England, your closest friend and ally, is bloody good. Maybe I'm a little biased here, but who else was fighting alongside you in Afghanistan? Tony Blair doesn't actually play for England. But David Beckham and Michael Owen do.

Being that Davies (an Englishman who produced an American version of an English show but came to sports prominence writing about WC 02 for an American sports website) is the reason that I started following the EPL, I'm inclined to do what he says. :)

I still giggle when they do something daft (like select Emile Heskey or lose to Australia), but in truth, there's nobody besides the USA that I want to win more than jolly old England.

[BW0683]

Originally posted by Don King

I still giggle when they do something daft (like select Emile Heskey or lose to Australia), but in truth, there's nobody besides the USA that I want to win more than jolly old England.

[Terrierbyassociation]

Trust me Don, nothing pains me more than England selecting Heskey to play for them over Sutton.

[Jimjamesak]

Originally posted by Terrierbyassociation
Hatred for the Germans, and we like the US, behind our team of course. ;)
"1-0 down, 4-1 up, two world wars and one world cup!"

I think it would have to be a combination of the two, obviously Germany and England aren't friends on the pitch and the US had a few players playing in England anyway.