Harvard/Brown @ Dartmouth

[dave1381]

... just wanted to start a new thread instead of saturating the Dartmouth@Princeton thread.

Originally posted by RALPH1313
I do, however, feel as if the Big Green will put a big hurt on Harvard and win 5-4 but the play-offs are going to be interesting. What Dartmouth needs is some team-building and you will see them come out to play.

5-4, really? Pretty bold prediction when the last game between these two teams was 2-1, and neither gives up 4 goals all that often (though with Dartmouth, giving up that many is suddenly becoming a problem.)

[ARM]

I don't get the feeling that this one is shaping up to be another 2-1 game.

[dave1381]

I don't think it will be either... 5-2, 4-2, 4-3 maybe... but not 5-4. I just don't see both these teams giving up four goals in the same game.

[Spaceman]

If Dartmouth is swept and SLU sweeps Colgate will SLU jump Dartmouth in the PWR?

[dartfan]

My two cents: It's either going to be a close game or Harvard is going to blow Dartmouth out of the water. I don't see Dartmouth winning big over Harvard. I don't know if Apps will play and the Apps/Piper duo is one of Dartmouth's main weapons.

However, Dartmouth's playing has been so inconsistent that it's completely a toss up.

They made an announcement for the Dartmouth-Harvard women's game at last weekend's Dartmouth men's game. They're hoping to break records but we'll see if the community completely grasps how vital this game is for Dartmouth.

[CrimsonFan79]

The Harvard-Dartmouth tilt promises to be one of the biggest of the season. I can't believe it won't be sold out because Dartmouth fans tend to salivate over the prospect of beating Harvard in anything. I think Harvard needs this win more than Dartmouth because we have had such trouble beating the Green. Still can't get over last year's ECAC tournament finale. We need to make a statement and send a message to the Green. And Ali Boe needs to come up big.

[dartfan]

Originally posted by CrimsonFan79
I can't believe it won't be sold out because Dartmouth fans tend to salivate over the prospect of beating Harvard in anything. I think Harvard needs this win more than Dartmouth because we have had such trouble beating the Green.

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you. While the Dartmouth - Harvard Women's hockey rivalry is huge, I would be amazingly surprised if Thompson sells out (4500). The Dartmouth arena (Thompson) is larger than Harvard's Bright and the population base is much smaller. Although the men have sold out a handful of times this year even the Princeton 'tennis ball' game was 7 tickets shy of a sell out. So I don't see the sellout. In terms of Harvard needing the win more than Dartmouth, I'll disagree again. In terms of frozen four prospects, Harvard is in very nice shape while Dartmouth is right on the edge with SLU and Wisc. When you factor in the fact that Dartmouth has lost 4 of its last 5 games, the Harvard game is essentially a "must win" for Dartmouth. I think everyone on this board will agree that if Harvard loses they're still sitting pretty in terms of frozen four births.

[dayglo]

Right, a sellout would be pretty far-fetched. As for a record, I won't make predictions as there are too many variables (weather, what else is going on in town, etc) I will say that it is THE weekend for dwhockey when everyone possible will come to the game - players and families from away, hockey alumns, other athletes, and all those people who only go to maybe 1 or 2 other games a year. In addition, DC is celebrating Women & Girls in Sports Day that weekend with free admission for local girls teams, so that should boost the attendance - although w. basketball is also playing at the same time and offering the same deal. In general, I don't think students are as much a factor in the attendance as the rest of the community (OK, DC, prove me wrong!)

[dayglo]

Originally posted by dartfan
It's either going to be a close game or Harvard is going to blow Dartmouth out of the water. I don't see Dartmouth winning big over Harvard. I don't know if Apps will play and the Apps/Piper duo is one of Dartmouth's main weapons.

However, Dartmouth's playing has been so inconsistent that it's completely a toss up.

I agree about your prediction (although again I'd love to be proven wrong). The team has plenty of very capable players besides Piper and Apps, as great as they are, but there must be something about them going in and out of the lineup that just messes up the team chemistry.

It may be that Harvard wants the game more because of past defeats - however, I agree that Dartmouth NEEDS it more at this particular point.

[dave1381]

wow, I didn't realize it was national girls and women in sports day. I've seen even the most irrelevant women's sporting events get pretty ridiculous crowds for such promotions, and here you have an extremely relevant sporting event. should be exciting.

[CrimsonFan79]

In terms of frozen four prospects, Harvard is in very nice shape while Dartmouth is right on the edge with SLU and Wisc. When you factor in the fact that Dartmouth has lost 4 of its last 5 games, the Harvard game is essentially a "must win" for Dartmouth. I think everyone on this board will agree that if Harvard loses they're still sitting pretty in terms of frozen four births

I agree that Harvard is looking good for the Frozen Four. What I mean't by Harvard needing to win is that we have had trouble beating Dartmouth the past few years and we need the win going into the ECAC tournament to bolster confidence. I feel very good about our chances against SLU, Brown or Princeton (despite the loss earlier this season) but Dartmouth seems to come up with the big goal to hurt us every year.

[dartfan]

So it's looking like Apps (shoulder) and Piper (concussion @ Princeton) are both out for Friday. In addition 4 other Dartmouth players have had some sort of injury over the last week. Hopefully some of them will be back. It's not looking good for the big green on Friday.....

[dave1381]

But you know what? Dartmouth's not going to have Apps and Piper for the Frozen Four ANYWAY. If Dartmouth can't win games like Saturday's against Princeton and this coming Friday against Harvard without Apps and Piper, they don't deserve to be in the Frozen Four.

[dartfan]

Originally posted by dave1381
If Dartmouth can't win games like Saturday's against Princeton and this coming Friday against Harvard without Apps and Piper, they don't deserve to be in the Frozen Four.

That's a fair point, however if Dartmouth is missing a bunch of players this Friday who will be able to play in the FF then perhaps their game against Harvard would not be an accurate reflection of the team. Of course all teams suffer from injuries etc... I'm not making excuses, my main point is that with potentially several players out this weekend it could prove very difficult to beat Harvard (and lets not look past Brown!)

[dayglo]

Originally posted by dave1381
wow, I didn't realize it was national girls and women in sports day.

the actual "day" was earlier in Feb.; Dartmouth is just celebrating it this coming weekend, probably because there is a better selection of women's athletic events.

[dayglo]

Originally posted by dartfan
So it's looking like Apps (shoulder) and Piper (concussion @ Princeton) are both out for Friday.

Don't tell me Piper got ANOTHER concussion?!? I fear she is becoming the Eric Lindros of w. hockey . . .

[dave1381]

yeah, that's No. 3 now in two years, isn't it? That makes for a history now. What a shame. She's small, fearless, and aggressive, so I guess it comes with the territory. I just hope she doesn't suffer any long-term consequences.

[BBpucky]

Originally posted by dartfan
My two cents: It's either going to be a close game or Harvard is going to blow Dartmouth out of the water. I don't see Dartmouth winning big over Harvard. I don't know if Apps will play and the Apps/Piper duo is one of Dartmouth's main weapons.


Dartmouth has only lost 5 games this year and looking at the Dartmouth website Piper has missed 9 games while Apps has missed 8. For 3 of Dartmouth's five losses, both have been in the lineup, which would indicate to me that even with the two Dartmouth can lose--and without them Dartmouth has also shown that they can win. So much has been made of Dartmouth's depth previously on this board that they should be able to win clutch games with or without Piper/Apps. Not to say it won't hurt D to lose them, any team losing two of three from their starting line would be at a disadvantage, but I do not think their presence makes or breaks the team. Lets save possible excuses until after the game.

That said I highly doubt that neither of them will play this weekend, teams often project worse-case scenarios until game time.

[dartfan]

Originally posted by BBpucky
Not to say it won't hurt D to lose them, any team losing two of three from their starting line would be at a disadvantage, but I do not think their presence makes or breaks the team.

I'd agree that missing 2 of their starting line shouldn't break the team .... that is, unless you're playing a top 5 team. Think about Harvard, what do you see their chances being against a full Dartmouth squad if Ruggiero and Chu were both out....

As I've mentioned the loss of Piper and Apps is detrimental but if a few other players are out with injury then it becomes even more so. I'm hoping you're correct in that the team might be making worst case projections with respect to injuries and that Apps and Piper do play. Dartmouth does have depth, we'll see how it plays out.

[dave1381]

Okay, let's look a little more closely at those losses and see how they match with Apps and Piper's availability.

Loss #1 - Dartmouth goes up 1-0. Piper gets a 10-minute misconduct. When she re-enters the game, Dartmouth is down 4-1.

Loss #2 - They have Apps and Piper. Yet they are also playing their second straight game without Weatherston and Walton.

Loss #3 - Apps leaves the game early with a shoulder injury.

Loss #4 - No Apps.

Loss #5 - No Apps, Piper leaves game in period 2 with a concussion.

Other top ten games they played shorthanded:

Tie against Mercyhurst - No Piper, No goals, 0-0 tie.

Win over UNH - No Piper, 4-1 win.

Win over Harvard - Piper leaves after two periods, Clark scores twice to get win. Hang on for dear life at the end.

Win over Minnesota - No Weatherston, Walton, take 3-2 lead in second. Hang on for dear life at the end.

----

So, conclusion is, they have occasionally eeked out wins over top five teams without some of their best players. But do the percentages look good? Absolutely not.