Jan. 16 poll

[dave1381]

new poll
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USCHO.com Division I Women's Poll

Team (First Place) Record Pts Last Week
1 Minnesota (9) 21-4-1 144 2
2 Harvard (5) 20-2-1 138 3
3 Dartmouth (1) 17-4-2 113 1
4 St. Lawrence 20-5-1 108 5
5 Wisconsin 18-5-3 93 4
6 Minnesota-Duluth 15-9-2 70 6
7 Mercyhurst 22-4-4 63 7
8 Princeton 16-6-0 43 8
9 New Hampshire 15-8-4 30 9
10 Brown 12-7-2 15 10

Others Receiving Votes: Minnesota State 4,
Ohio State 3, Providence 1

[ARM]

It's kind of strange: #4 Wisconsin plays at #2 Minnesota, the series is pretty much a toss-up, Minnesota moves up and Wisconsin moves down. I realize that it is more a reflection on SLU sweeping Dartmouth, but ...

Of course, the real shock is that Harvard is not #5! (j/k)

[Jerrytas]

I'm a bit surprised that Harvard only received 5 first place votes. And I'm really shocked by the fact that Dartmouth even got a first place vote. I can definitely see the rationale for Harvard not being first, but for Dartmouth still getting a first place vote while on a three game losing streak?

[ARM]

It almost seems like some of the voters don't check the scores very often.

[dave1381]

hahaha... I wasn't all that wrong though. I was right that Minnesota got all the first and second place votes, and that Harvard did not. Harvard either got two thirds or one fourth.

[dave1381]

Perhaps it was the "let's make excuses" rationale. Loss 1, Piper gets a misconduct. Loss 2, Weatherston and Walton are gone. Loss 3, Apps gets hurt and Piper gets a misconduct. Loss 4, Apps doesn't play. When Dartmouth was at full strength they beat Harvard, and still split Minnesota on the road when they were short two people. Voter feels when said players are all back on the ice together, Dartmouth is the best team in the country. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't think ranking Dartmouth No. 1 is quite as irrational or incompetent as it might first seem.

[binnyrus]

If that were any kind of rational rationale than UMD would not be ranked 6th.

I'm tending to lean toward what ARM said, someone voted and had no clue of the weekend's results.

[Jerrytas]

Maybe Piper should stop getting misconducts, then. In all seriousness though, you have to look at Harvard vs. Princeton as the loss of Angie Ruggiero, if you're (not you personally, Dave) going to make excuses for teams.

[ARM]

Dave, you'd make a good defense lawyer. I could do the same thing for Minnesota. Loss 1 - are the holidays over already? Loss 2 - who knew these guys could score three goals in a game? Loss 3 - penalties? they never called penalties before when we played these guys. Loss 4 - they threatened to go to the CHA if we don't let them win once a year.

And you could do that for Harvard too, but there's hardly enough to make a decent paragraph.

[dave1381]

Oh, there's definitely enough to make a decent paragraph for Harvard even with just two losses, but I'll spare you.

[Badger Booster]

All I know is that Wisconsin entered the weekend ranked #4, went up to Minneapolis, got the split and promptly get dropped to #5. Then, to add insult to injury, the Gophers move up to #1.

Who votes on that poll? Get a clue.

[brookyone]

Have to agree, that seems nonsensicle to me as well. Having been at the games I don't think Minnesota & Wisconsin are that far apart in reality. Kinda why I don't pay much attention to the polls as this would seem to indicate real world accuracy is questionable...but of course, some degree of speculation in polls is generally acknowledged.

[skatinfiend]

It just looks like the St Lawrence sweep of Dartmouth had a bigger impact in the votes than the MN/WI split. Where there was just one team between MN and WI, now there are three as Dartmouth fell and SLU rose.

The way I read it is that all five are very close, and that has been proven by the games they have played against each other. Again, to others' points, the polls aren't too meaningful anyway. Too bad only four can make the tournament. Next year...

[dave1381]

In any poll, a sweep is going to have more impact than a split. This isn't unprecedented.

People suggest Wisconsin dropping from fourth to fifth damages the credibility of the polls. Do realize, Wisconsin also dropped from fourth to fifth in the Pairwise Rankings. Does that mean we should stop paying attention to them too?

It was obvious entering this week that Wisconsin and St. Lawrence were very close in every regard. To stay ahead of St. Lawrence, Wisconsin had to do as good or better against Minnesota than St. Lawrence did against Dartmouth (the two opponents, who were within a point of separation atop the poll and also extremely close in the PWR). Wisconsin failed to do that. Therefore they are No. 5. Is that so nonsensical?

As for Wisconsin and Minnesota being close, they sure are. But Dartmouth split with Minnesota too. UMD also split with Minnesota. But unless someone starts a 2 or 3-dimensional ranking system, there are only two ways you can have teams within a spot of each other in the rankings.

[brookyone]

To clarify if I may...and this is just my opinion & most definetely not meant to offend anyone but I have always felt obsessing over polls / rankings slightly nonsensicle...but I do appreciate how it can be entertaining. Also, I am anxiously awaiting expansion to 8 teams which hopefully would diminish the unfortunate possibility that deserving teams are screwed out of post season appearances by the current criteria.

[dave1381]

Originally posted by brookyone
Also, I am anxiously awaiting expansion to 8 teams which hopefully would diminish the unfortunate possibility that deserving teams are screwed out of post season appearances by the current criteria.
I think we can all agree on that.

And in all fairness to the criteria, while I don't like a lot of things about it, I don't think there is a fair way to pick four teams from four conferences that don't play nearly enough games against each other. There's just a total lack of information. You have to either expand the schedule or expand the tournament, so I'm very glad the latter is most likely upcoming.

[dave1381]

USA Today poll, much closer at 1-2 and 3-4. Much wider at 4-5.

1. Minnesota 180 (10)
2. Harvard 178 (8)
3. St. Lawrence 141 (1)
4. Dartmouth 139
5. Wisconsin 121
etc.

http://www.ecachockey.com/Page_for_Women/releases/2003-04_Poll_Releases/2003-04_Division_I_Women-s_Poll_Release_18.pdf