Women's NCHA Comments, etc.

[Cozmo Timothy]

Figured since the NCHA regular season end promises to be entertaining, thought a thread should be started to share opinions and insights on the matters at hand.

Good sweep by River Falls at home against Superior last weekend. Having last year's team leading scorer Ali Slinden back into the line-up has given the Falcons a shot of adrenaline and a renewed hope of post-season play. From the box scores, Slinden had 2 goals and 2 assists this last weekend. This team is Frozen Four team from last year.

Falcons travel to Lake Forest this weekend for their final 2 conference games. Beware of the Foresters as they go for the upset and win their first conference game this year.

Speaking of upsets, congrats to Coach Collins and the Eau Claire Blugolds on their first victory (and a shut-out to boot) over Stevens Point on Saturday, 2-0. Check out the game story on the team's official web-site. The Blugolds go to Superior this weekend to try the row of spoiler on the road.

Superior's young Lady Jackets (15 freshman) seemed to have had trouble with the rarified air of being on top after sweeping Stevens Point. From the box scores, leading scorer Erin Kegley scored all 3 Superior goals at River Falls last weekend. A sweep of the Blugolds this weekend would get the Lady Jackets back on track heading into a exciting final weekend series at Stevens Point.

Point has this next weekend off to prep for the series with Superior. Noticed from the recent box scores that Pointers goalie Amy Statz has not played since the last River Falls series and Emily Teachout has not been on the roster as well. Statz has been great for the Pointers and Teachout is a solid veteran. Anyone in Stevens Point know if these gals are injured and when they will return?

Seems that it is possible that Superior, Stevens Point, or River Falls will be the one and only NCHA Pool B team for the NCAA tournament. From the NCAA D-III Women's Championship manual, post-season tournament games count in the selection criteria, so regardless of who wins the regualr season the winner of the NCHA tourney could be the NCAA-bound team. Which ever team goes, it's a shame that at least one other team wouldn't be going as well as a Pool C bid. But, on the other hand, that will make the ending to the 2003/2004 NCHA season even more entertaining.

[yellowjacketfan]

I guess the most comforting thing about the end of the season is that UWS still has 4 NCHA games left while Point and Falls only have 2. And with the point standings the way they are now...if UWS sweeps Eau Claire at home, which i'm hoping won't be too much of a challenge and can at least split with point the following weekend they would be the regular season champion and would host the tournament...which i would say is their best shot at winning it this year.

I would really like to see the tournament here so they i could go and watch the games....so Point....lose one for me.

Thanks

[ValFan]

AFTER A 14 WIN SEASON LAST YEAR....WHAT HAPPEN TO LAKE FOREST THIS YEAR ?

[Cozmo Timothy]

Originally posted by ValFan
AFTER A 14 WIN SEASON LAST YEAR....WHAT HAPPEN TO LAKE FOREST THIS YEAR ?

The Foresters had a top scorer from last year Robyn Slater (13-9-22) graduate and the leading scorer from last year, a freshman, Emily Blegen (16-11-27) left the program. In addition, another freshman from last year Nicki Paquette (8-4-12) left the program. Subsequently, the Foresters have had a tough go at scoring this year with only 16 goals this year and a total of 33 points after 21 games.

[yellowjacketfan]

I wish other people would say something in here :P

[Coach32]

When will the NCHA expand and qualify for an auto-bid. I've heard rumors it may happen, does anyone know???

[Cozmo Timothy]

Originally posted by Coach32
When will the NCHA expand and qualify for an auto-bid. I've heard rumors it may happen, does anyone know???

Expansion for the NCHA may come in the next year or two. Doing a little "web-surfing" produced some interesting info.

From the Finlandia College Athletics web-site, they are starting a varsity women's hockey program next year and plan to join the NCHA for the 2005/2006 season. Finalndia is located in the Upper Peninsula, Michigan and has good proximity with the other NCHA teams. Other Finlandia athletic teams are NCAA affiliated, at least as a provisional member. It is possible that they could join next year instead of waiting a year.

On a more speculative side, Robert Morris College in Chicago started a women's ice hockey program this year and has played exhibition games this season against MIAC teams Hamline & Bethel. Since the MIAC has 10 teams, wouldn't think the MIAC would expand if Robert Morris wanted to step up the program. Robert Morris is very close to NCHA member Lake Forest College in Chicago, which would be a good fit for scheduling, etc. However, neither the men's or the women's ice hockey team nor other Robert Morris teams are NCAA affiliated. Rather they are in the ACHA (American Collegiate Hockey Association) for ice hockey and NAIA for basketball and baseball, etc.

The only other exhibition games on any MIAC team's schedule were against club level D-I or D-II schools, which could not play in any D-III sports. NCHA schedules were entirely against other D-III schools.

Note that I don't know for sure about the following and could be off the mark somewhat, but if both of these teams would join the NCHA giving the conference a total of 7 teams, an auto-bid for the NCAA tournament is not forthcoming unless all the schools are NCAA affiliated, at least as a provisional member. Therefore, if Robert Morris would join the NCHA and then become a member of the NCAA along with their other athletic teams as well as ice hockey, the NCHA would get their auto-bid into the NCAA Championship Tournament. Consequently, the NCAA would most likely expand the championship field from 7 teams as is this year to 8 teams with 5 auto-bids and 3 at-large bids. This process may take a few years to complete, but it would be a step in the right direction for sure.

[PointerHockey]

Originally posted by Cozmo Timothy
Therefore, if Robert Morris would join the NCHA and then become a member of the NCAA along with their other athletic teams as well as ice hockey, the NCHA would get their auto-bid into the NCAA Championship Tournament. Consequently, the NCAA would most likely expand the championship field from 7 teams as is this year to 8 teams with 5 auto-bids and 3 at-large bids. This process may take a few years to complete, but it would be a step in the right direction for sure.

I believe, and I could be wrong here, that the tournament field wouldn't be expanded to 8 until there were a lot more women's team added to Div. III. They fall under the same rules as the men do when it comes to tournament size.

I can't remember exactly what the ratio is for determining the tournament field, but it's like 6.8:1 or something like that. So, for every 6.8 NCAA Div. III teams there are, there would be one tournament spot.

[Cozmo Timothy]

Originally posted by PointerHockey
I believe, and I could be wrong here, that the tournament field wouldn't be expanded to 8 until there were a lot more women's team added to Div. III. They fall under the same rules as the men do when it comes to tournament size.

I can't remember exactly what the ratio is for determining the tournament field, but it's like 6.8:1 or something like that. So, for every 6.8 NCAA Div. III teams there are, there would be one tournament spot.

Good to hear from you PointerHockey. From my original post, I said the same thing about maybe being off the mark, NCAA By-laws are a bear to understand thoroughly.

The conclusion is based on the NCAA Division III Manual, Executive Regulations, Bylaw 31.3.1. In that papragraph it states that "the size of all NCAA championship fields shall be established by the Championships Committee to provide for efficient management of the events, adequate NCAA championship opportunities relative to the nationwide quality of competition and sound economic administration of the financial resources of the [NCAA] and its championships."

I tried to locate a sub-paragraph on determining the size of the field but didn't find anything. The only ratio listed is in Bylaw 31.3.1.1 "Eligibility for Berths" and has to do with the how the number of Pool B participants are determined. That ratio is the number of eligible institutions divided by the team-bracket size, which in turn is divided by the number of institutions in conferences without an auto-bid or an independent. The number of Pool C teams are determined by taking the total team-bracket less the number of auto-bid Pool A teams less the number of Pool B teams as determined above. However, in all of that, there is no mention of how the original number for the total team-bracket is determined except for in Bylaw 31.3.1 as quoted above.

It is a bit of wishful-thinking that the Women's Ice Hockey Championship Committee would expand the field to 8 teams, but I think that would be in line with the requirements of the above bylaw. That is as long as it can bring in some cash!!!

[yellowjacketfan]

I'd rather see other NCHA schools gain women's programs. I said this once before....it'd be hard for the public schools to start up the programs, because funding is in the ****hole, however if St Norberts, regardless of what the dumbass men's coach says, got a team and St Scholastica got a team, then we'd have 7 as well. I'd rather have that then finlandia or Robert Morris.

[yellowjacketfan]

oh my gosh it let me say dumbass

[Cozmo Timothy]

Originally posted by yellowjacketfan
I'd rather see other NCHA schools gain women's programs. I said this once before....it'd be hard for the public schools to start up the programs, because funding is in the hole, however if St Norberts, regardless of what the men's coach says, got a team and St Scholastica got a team, then we'd have 7 as well. I'd rather have that then Finlandia or Robert Morris.

I agree that it would be harder for a public school to start up a program than a private school. As such, both Finlandia and Robert Morris are private schools. Though a public school, UW-Stout would be another option to add to your list.

[Cozmo Timothy]

Originally posted by PointerHockey
I believe, and I could be wrong here, that the tournament field wouldn't be expanded to 8 until there were a lot more women's team added to Div. III. They fall under the same rules as the men do when it comes to tournament size.

I can't remember exactly what the ratio is for determining the tournament field, but it's like 6.8:1 or something like that. So, for every 6.8 NCAA Div. III teams there are, there would be one tournament spot.

PointerHockey:

After replying to your post, figured I would give the manual a look through one more time and 'low and behold', found the ratio you were alluding to in your post. It was located some pages later in a special textbox and is found in Bylaw 31.3.4.4, which was revised at the 2003 Convention and will take effect August 1, 2005. From that bylaw, the ratio to establish the overall size of the team-brackets will be "based on an approximate access ratio of 1:6.5."

At the present time, D-III women's ice hockey have 41 (counting MIT) teams. If this ratio was applied to the current number of teams, the bracket size would be 6.31. If by the effective date, RPI moves up to D-I and the NCHA adds 2 more teams, the total team count would be 42 and the bracket size 6.46.

In the bylaw's main paragraph it states that after doing the "approximate" ratio calculation, the Championship committee is allowed to "adjust[ed] as necessary." Seeing how the current bracket size is 7, seems that the committee would 'adjust' the number by rounding up versus decreasing the bracket size to only 6 teams when the revised bylaw takes effect in 2005.

Your point about adding alot more teams is right on as it is doubtful that with the revised bylaw coming into effect in 2005, the committee would expand to 8 teams and then fall short by some 1.54 teams. Using the ratio, there would have to be a total of 52 teams to have a championship bracket of 8 teams. Basically, that's a whole new conference of 10 new teams.

IMHO, this new bylaw seems to go against original bylaw of having "adequate championship opportunities relative to the nationwide quality of competition..." as there are 8 teams that would have a reasonable chance of winning the championship this year if given the opportunity. In addition, seems that if D-I gals, of which there are currently 31 participating institutions, can expand their championship field to 8 teams, then D-III gals with 41 participating institutions should be able to do the same. A counter-point may be brought about "sound economic administration of the financial resourses...", but I don't see the NCAA going broke anytime soon.

[PointerHockey]

Well, it's become obvious that those of us with the first name Timothy like to dig through NCAA manuals, et al. :)

I think that at this point the NCAA is still "waiting and seeing" what happens with Div. III Women's hockey. With it still being 4 years out of the gate (for a good portion of the country) I think they are still waiting to see how much commitment is going to be made to these teams over the long haul.

I think some of the questions that they're waiting for answers on are:
Will the current teams stay in existence?
Will the teams like RPI and others stay Div. III?
Is there any chance at all of expansion to the current conferences, or new conferences?

I think until those questions are answered (remember, it took quite a while for the men's team to get to it's current 9 team field) I don't think any broad strokes are going to be made in regards to expanding the tournament.

My personal opinion? I, like a lot of others, would like to see the NCAA get something correct the first time. Rather than doing update after update on their selection criteria. They're human though, so there is some margin of error in their judgements. The more I think about it, the more I enjoy my rose-colored view on hockey in general. I absolutely love this game, and have for a very long time.

And on a cheesey note, thanks again 1980 US Olympic Hockey team for opening my eyes, and the eyes of my parents to hockey. No idea what my life would be like without it.

Originally posted by Cozmo Timothy
PointerHockey:

After replying to your post, figured I would give the manual a look through one more time and 'low and behold', found the ratio you were alluding to in your post. It was located some pages later in a special textbox and is found in Bylaw 31.3.4.4, which was revised at the 2003 Convention and will take effect August 1, 2005. From that bylaw, the ratio to establish the overall size of the team-brackets will be "based on an approximate access ratio of 1:6.5."

At the present time, D-III women's ice hockey have 41 (counting MIT) teams. If this ratio was applied to the current number of teams, the bracket size would be 6.31. If by the effective date, RPI moves up to D-I and the NCHA adds 2 more teams, the total team count would be 42 and the bracket size 6.46.

In the bylaw's main paragraph it states that after doing the "approximate" ratio calculation, the Championship committee is allowed to "adjust[ed] as necessary." Seeing how the current bracket size is 7, seems that the committee would 'adjust' the number by rounding up versus decreasing the bracket size to only 6 teams when the revised bylaw takes effect in 2005.

Your point about adding alot more teams is right on as it is doubtful that with the revised bylaw coming into effect in 2005, the committee would expand to 8 teams and then fall short by some 1.54 teams. Using the ratio, there would have to be a total of 52 teams to have a championship bracket of 8 teams. Basically, that's a whole new conference of 10 new teams.

IMHO, this new bylaw seems to go against original bylaw of having "adequate championship opportunities relative to the nationwide quality of competition..." as there are 8 teams that would have a reasonable chance of winning the championship this year if given the opportunity. In addition, seems that if D-I gals, of which there are currently 31 participating institutions, can expand their championship field to 8 teams, then D-III gals with 41 participating institutions should be able to do the same. A counter-point may be brought about "sound economic administration of the financial resourses...", but I don't see the NCAA going broke anytime soon.

[Cozmo Timothy]

A close 2 games this weekend in Point result in Superior claiming the regular season crown by winning 1-0 on Saturday afternoon.

The next NCAA Regional Rankings due out February 24 should remain unchanged from last week for the western region.

Sets the scene for a great NCHA post-season tourney hosted by Superior next Saturday & Sunday. Eau Claire makes their way back to a tourney appearance and gets Superior as Steven Point & River Falls square-off. This will the the first game against Point for the Falcons leading scorer of last year Ali Slinden. Thus far, Point is 3-0-1 against Falls.

[My User Name]

Originally posted by yellowjacketfan
I wish other people would say something in here :P

Should be an interesting tournament in Superior.

Not really looking forward to the looooooong drive from Winona to watch my cousin play, but what else is there to do this time of year.

Have fun and good luck!!