UMD chancellor target of hockey complaint

[Moveurfeet]

ARM:
OK. Then we disagree on one thing: I think coaches have a responsibility to exercise control over their players, particularly right in front of the bench. Reprimands shouldn't wait until the locker room if they'll diffuse a volatile situation.

Just to be clear, I'm saying that entire context of the incident ought to be investigated. My belief is when somebody accuses somebody of something like this, their motivations and actions also need to be investigated.

I'm not saying we should attack the accuser. If they're squeaky clean, it does them good for the investigator to say so. If they're trying to deflect attention from something they did, it's important for us to know, too. That'll put the whole matter to rest, rather than leaving us speculating about what in the heck really happened.

That said, I'm gonig to watch the men player the Gophers tonight. It's been a long time since we've been competitive with the University of Minnesota lower campus.

[ARM]

Originally posted by Moveurfeet
Then we disagree on one thing: I think coaches have a responsibility to exercise control over their players, particularly right in front of the bench.

No, we agree on that, too. We disagree as to what is an acceptable means to go about it.

Enjoy the game, it should be a good one.

[Larry R]

Originally posted by pgb-ohio
1. The Chancellor needs to sit in a different location. Perhaps a place in the press box can be found. If not, another "high status" location will do. The new location simply needs to be well removed from rinkside. I don't see any need for a press conference apology. Just quietly make the change.

2. A uniformed security officer needs to be stationed in the visitors' bench area. If it's this easy for something to be dropped into the bench, there's an ongoing issue with the design of the facility. Removing the Chancellor from the vicinity doesn't fully address the problem. Next time, the dropped item might be something heavy, like a camera or a pair of binoculars. A security presence is needed. A single officer should provide plenty of "deterrence." I'll bet UMD already has someone like this on duty. All they need to do is re-position that person to the bench. It probably won't cost UMD a dime. Besides, it will give the officer an interesting place to watch the games from!

While 2 very nice suggestions, let me tell you why neither of those items will happen. I will make the assumption that you have never been at the DECC, and that while this may work in your arena, it won't work here. Having seen my share of some 200+ games in the DECC, this is the first time I can remember this problem ever coming up. While the new configuration gives the fans more accessability to both benches, I can't remember any game where the benches have ever been an issue.

1. She is not media, nor a team official, so she is not welcome in the pressbox. The DECC pressbox is also where all the official stats are done, so there is barely room for working media, much less a fan. Having had a seat in the pressbox for 6 years, I can account for that, and while in my mind, they are the best seats in the house, there just isn't any room for her.

2. The new configuration of the DECC does not allow for an officer to be positioned in any place that could prevent any such incident. The bench is right against the bowl, and with the back area for the trainers and equipment, any sort of officer would be in the hallway under the bowl (which would do no good) or actually be positioned on the bench, which would already crowd a back bench area.

As far as the chancellor changing her seats, she has the right to sit in the best seats in the house if she wishes (well except the pressbox :D). All things considered, I'd probably sit where she does too, its the end the Dogs shoot at twice and provides great sight lines. The only disadvantage to being that close to the benches is that they tend to smell a bit by the end of the game (and the DECC hasn't figured out a way to see fresh popcorn there to overcome that) :)

I'm glad its Friday, we can talk about whats on the ice and not whats going on off it.


1. She is not media.

[pgb-ohio]

Originally posted by Larry R

1. She is not media, nor a team official, so she is not welcome in the pressbox. The DECC pressbox is also where all the official stats are done, so there is barely room for working media, much less a fan. Having had a seat in the pressbox for 6 years, I can account for that, and while in my mind, they are the best seats in the house, there just isn't any room for her.

I appreciate the feedback. I have attended games at the DECC on three separate occasions, the most recent being last year's Frozen Four. But admittedly, I wasn't there to analyze the facility! Obviously my press box idea won't work.

I still that say a "Chancellor's Box" could be added at a very modest cost. This wouldn't have to be a luxury box, or any sort of separate room. In many older baseball stadiums, box seats were created by putting up railing to create groups of seats. In this case, you'd probably want to do a little more than that. For example, the box could include bigger, plusher chairs. Dare I say that beverage holders might be a good idea?

Again, the only real "requirement" would be to quietly relocate the Chancellor. There's lots of great vantage points available. There's no need for anybody to sit in one, and only one, location. Just emphasize the improvements, let everybody save face, and move on.

Originally posted by Larry R
2. The new configuration of the DECC does not allow for an officer to be positioned in any place that could prevent any such incident. The bench is right against the bowl, and with the back area for the trainers and equipment, any sort of officer would be in the hallway under the bowl (which would do no good) or actually be positioned on the bench, which would already crowd a back bench area.

Thanks once more for the feedback. Again, it looks like my first attempt at brainstorming didn't provide the answer. But when security is at issue, an adequate solution must be found.

My only other thought is that the officer may need to be located in the first row. This would result in the loss of one prime seat for fans. That's too bad, but it's not a terribly high cost. Furthermore, this is not an unusual approach. In many arenas, the goal judges are exposed to the crowd. One option is to station a security officer by each goal judge, resulting in the loss of two seats. Again, it's a small price pay when compared to the added security for the participants -- be they players, coaches or officials.

Local Duluth people will probably come up with better ideas than mine. I'm sure that there are many good ways to approach this problem. My main desire was get away from the finger-pointing, and focus on solutions.

[pgb-ohio]

Moveurfeet,

It was fun being back at the rink last night. Our Men's team beat UNO 3-1. I understand that your Men's team had a pretty good night as well. Congratulations!

Just a couple more thoughts, before we go back to our respective rinks tonight.

Originally posted by Moveurfeet
But I can't go with what I look at as "the accused should flog themselves" philosophy of yours. That opens the door to all sorts of shenagans that we generally try to avoid in this country.
I am totally mystified by this criticism. One of my major points is that the Chancellor shouldn't be compelled to admit anything or to apologize. None of my posts call for the Chancellor to comment at all, much less "flog herself."

What I'm basically calling for is an informal settlement. I know that settlements often rub people the wrong way. But litigating every little dispute to the bitter end would be very dysfunctional.

Originally posted by Moveurfeet
I think there are a number of other errors in your arguments, including some assumptions that aren't grounded in good facts, but assumptions based on speculation.
I'm really only making one assumption. My assumption is that the following people are telling the truth to the best of their ability:

1. Journalist Christa Lawler
2. Lawler's group of eight witnesses
3. The two Lawler witnesses that agreed to be quoted
4. USCHO Poster Give me an S
5. USCHO Poster HumRsky

To the best of my knowledge, all of these people are from Duluth. There's no partisan motivation for them to lie, or to otherwise shade the truth.

Could the witnesses have some of the details wrong? Sure. But in my mind, there's more than enough here to conclude that problems have occurred, and that there's a risk of future problems if no corrective measures are taken.

Do my conclusions involve speculation? I'm not sure that's the right word. I do understand that you're using the word as a criticism. But I wasn't in Duluth last weekend, or for that matter, this season. In order to form an opinion, I had no choice but to evaluate the comments of the actual witnesses. Note that in a formal investigation, exactly the same thing is done. The fact-finder isn't an eyewitness. He or she is just passing judgement on the various statements.

I stand by my posts.

[Riverman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by binnyrus
[B]Maybe there should be an annoucement before every game reminding people about respectful behavior . . . I thought they did that at the FF in past seasons?



It's done before EVERY sporting event at UND. But to me it sounds like Charlie Browns teacher from Peanuts.

Blah-Blah-mock Blah... ;)

Hey, if the refs are bad like they were this weekend at UND they should be prepared to hear me! :p

To prove my point the net was off and the play continued for almost a minute and G. Sheppard was here this weekend!!! :eek:

[binnyrus]

Maybe this isn't funny . . . but I heard that at the UMD vs MN men's game in Duluth this weekend past that a chant got started calling for the chancellor.

At long last a celebrity. Maybe it'll become a tradition at the UMD games - not the deed itself, but the call for it!!!

I don't know, I can't help but smile.

[HumRsky]

Originally posted by binnyrus
Maybe this isn't funny . . . but I heard that at the UMD vs MN men's game in Duluth this weekend past that a chant got started calling for the chancellor.

At long last a celebrity. Maybe it'll become a tradition at the UMD games - not the deed itself, but the call for it!!!

I don't know, I can't help but smile.

The PB first started chanting "spill your water" in place of the normal p*ss on them that they chant to Champ, who proceeds to pretend to pee on the opponents, but was stopped by the Chancellor last year. When it was noted that the Chancellor did not appear to be on the premesis, the chant switched to "where's the chancellor?" It was my favorite chant of the night. I am not a fan of the chancellor for a lot more than just what happens at hockey games.

[pgb-ohio]

Just one more inquiry for Larry R, or anyone else familiar with the physical characteristics of the DECC.

As a DirecTV subscriber, I was able to see a portion of this weekend's Bulldogs vs. Gophers series. (Men's Teams) The Fox North broadcast provided several glimpses of the visitor's bench. It appeared that there was a photographers' stand set up immediately behind the bench area. At one point you could see someone working with a tripod. At other moments you saw camera bags, a small stool, etc.

The area didn't appear to be large. Still, it looked like there was plenty of room for a couple more people. My question is this: Could a security guard be stationed on this photographer's stand? If so, that would seem to address the problem we've discussed on this thread.

[Bruce Ciskie]

There isn't a photography stand that I know of.

There are seats above and behind the vistors' bench, and then there's an aisle. The only person who was in that area with a camera was the person with the portable camera who was following the UMD student section around, IIRC.

[Larry R]

I can't speak of anything that I can remember for being a stand. It would be a great place to shoot from, but you would be right on top of the team, and thats probably not going to work. And anything at that height, unless the person was sitting down, would probably obstruct sight lines for the people on either side.

[pgb-ohio]

I must have been seeing the aisle. It didn't look that there would be room to set up a chair for someone to sit down. While there appeared to be plenty of room to stand, that doesn't work if you're constantly blocking the view. That's probably why the guy with the tripod left after a short period of time.

As I previously noted, local Duluth people are in best position to come up with a solution. With a little thought, I'm sure a sensible solution can be found.

Thanks for the replies.

[Moveurfeet]

Just a coupla thoughts.

There's really no way to make it impossible to throw stuff into the penalty box/bench areas. The arena is pretty vertical -- I think one of the things that makes it such a tough environment for visiting teams is we're almost right on top of the ice. I've seen nachos make it from a third of the way up the stands into the penalty box at a men's game (except for the cheeze-whiz that fell on my head).

The chancellor's seat is technically above the visitor's bench, but near the inside corner of it. UMD appears to have about four seats there; a couple are above the visitor's bench, a couple above the UMD bench, so they really straddle the red line.

Security guards (off-duty city cops) are available at all games, and they enforce good behavior. At least two fans were ejected from Saturday's men's game, and as off-duty cops, they have no reason to worry about retribution from the chancellor. I've seen them stand near the team benches to observe fans, and they take complaints seriously.

Obviously, as an officer of a WCHA institution, the chancellor needs to be held to a higher standard of behavior. But if her behavior was abusive during the game, it could have been stopped promptly, too.

[Puck Swami]

Chancellors should be leading universities, educating people and setting examples, not pouring water on guest opponents at her own school. I've never heard of anything like this in all my life.

If I were connected to UMD, I'd be humiliated by this kind of behavior. Sounds to me like this woman does not have the level of maturity necessary to run a university...

[yellowjacketfan]

Is there any actual proof, not what people say, but proof that she threw the water? If not..then shut up....it happened 2 weeks ago...forget about it...i'm sure it wasn't the end of the world.

[stetem]

IS SHE RELATED TO THE HANSON BROTHERS

[ARM]

Seems like a reasonable solution has been agreed upon:

http://wcha.ocsn.com/sports/w-hockey/spec-rel/022004aaa.html

[binnyrus]

Oh no, that puts the tickets in my section 12. As long as it doesn't displace any of we regulars . . . now THAT would tick me off!!

I wonder if the chancellor will get into the "wave" we have . . hmmmmmm!

:D :D :D

[Moveurfeet]

I'd say the solution was quite sportsmanlike. Here are the facts from people who have put their names behind their statements:
OSU players hit UMD players from behind after the horn; Barto and staff did little to diffuse the situation; fans reacted; some water from chancellor's bottle landed on an assitant coach's back (accidentally, as ruled by UMD investigation accepted by WCHA); chancellor apologized immediately and UMD reps apologized formally after the game; Barto decided not to avail herself of arena security during the game or accept the apologies and instead pursued a formal complaint after the game.

Looks like UMD is taking several actions to deal with the perception of unsportsmanlike behavior. Maybe this a good standard to set; maybe coaches can start taking actions to deal with the perception that players acted in an unsportsmanlike manner.

By the way, her are a few quirky points about this whole matter. The chancellor is a former nun who made us change the name of our mascot from killer to champ, because killer was too violent. And I know the people who used to have her seats. I think you're better off with her.

[brookyone]

Originally posted by Moveurfeet


By the way, her are a few quirky points about this whole matter. The chancellor is a former nun who made us change the name of our mascot from killer to champ, because killer was too violent. And I know the people who used to have her seats. I think you're better off with her.

As a graduate of a catholic school with nuns for teachers...back in the day of corporal punishment I can attest to the often painful reality not all nuns are non violent...back then it actually seemed very few were. :D :D