High School Players/Teams Observations

[dave1381]

I'll be the first to admit I know next-to-nothing about Minnesota high school hockey, but can someone explain to me how holding the state tournament at Ridder is telling girls that they're "inferior"?
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/7463456.htm
The Minnesota women's program certainly doesn't seem to feel that way.

IMHO, the DECC made for a far more exciting atmosphere than Mariucci for the Frozen Four, in large part because it was a smaller venue and it was packed. Seems to me this lawsuit exists simply because one lawyer can't find any better way to publicize herself, and it'll just make things worse for everyone involved.

[brookyone]

There is no reasonable explanation for this lawsuit. In my opinion which is shared by many in Minnesota, It's a BS lawsuit. The lawsuit has been a story of interest with the local press. One writer put it best. "It's (Ridder) good enough for the number 1 ranked womens college hockey team, with national team players & olympians, not to mention olympians from many other D1 teams, but not good enough for these high school girls?" There was a fair amount of disbelief & chagrin that an attorney would even take the case. Local press also make the valid point that the crowds attending the girls high school tournament don't warrant playing at the xcel energy center (home of the Minnesota wild.) I stuck my head into Ridder last year while the tournament was in progress while waiting for a UM / UMD game at Mariucci next door. There was plenty of room / empty seats available at Ridder at that time. Another local writer said "if the girls want to play in a virtually empty building, let em."

Still other girls playing in last years tournament said it was "awesome" playing at Ridder.

[binnyrus]

Though this has nothing to do with the lawsuit, one nice thing about playing at EXCEL would be that recruiting could happen by more teams than the Gophers. My understanding is that as it stands with the tourney at Ridder, Minnesota does not allow recruiting on location by other teams.

If this is the case, then that's the basis for a lawsuit for changing the venue . . IMO.

[tbhockey17]

If the tournament is changed to the Excel center they will have to charge over 10$ a ticket even for students to make up for the how much they would have to play to use the space. It is not worth it when Ridder is available for a much better price. Also the Excel will make the crouds look smaller then they already do.

[brookyone]

Not to mention the schedule conflict with the high school danceline finals set for the same weekend at the X. I wonder what kind of crowds they get for those ?

Disclaimer. This is not to be construed as any kind of negative comment on high school danceline competition. I'm all for it.

[yellowjacketfan]

This is a title 9 issue. Which many people don't seem to understand. If you had your choice, would you rather play at the Excel or the Ritter? I'd chose the excel. They boys play there why not the girls. Title 9 is about being equal. Obviously the people who issued the lawsuit feel th at the Ritter is not equal to the Excel, and I would agree...based on the fact that the boys and girls play at different arenas. Someone said that it would be more expensive to have the tournament at the Xcel.....but they front the cash for they boys, which i might add shows inequity. Now i know your going to say...more people come to the boys games.....THATS NOT THE POINT. As i'm sure most of you know, we went through a similar mess like this at UWS a few years back, which i believe led to a horrible end to an awesome season for UWS. It doesn't matter if you have 1 person in the stands or 1000...those people are there to watch their team play. And if the excel is good enough for the boys it **** well better be enough for the girls. One solution to this would be to move the boy's tournament to Ritter...but could you imagine the uproar that would cause. Women's hockey, especially in minnesota is on the rise. Like someone else said....the girls in the duluth/cloquet and iron range areas are amazing and in superior too. But fan support is not going to grow if they don't start putting it on a big stage. I'm not saying that the Ritter isn't a big stage, but its not as big as the X.


There's my two cents worth

[dave1381]

TITLE IX is not about being equal.
It is an anti-discrimination law. World of difference.
If there is no discrimination happening, there is no Title IX violation.

And I don't think there's any discrimination here. My intuition is the vast majority of fans, players and coaches would prefer the smaller venue right now. Are any field hockey teams suing for the right to play in football stadiums? There's a reason for it. Does a small minority of individuals wanting something different from everybody else constitute discrimination? I don't think so. This isn't a cut or dry issue like giving boys better uniforms, everyone would want the better uniforms. In this case not everyone would want the bigger venue.

[brookyone]

I would like to clarify my previous posts and state I personally have no problem whatsoever with the girls playing their tournament at the X. It would be fine with me. Nevertheless, the lawsuit has left a bad taste in the mouths of many here in Minnesota. The lawsuit itself may lack some merit as the vast majority of girls competing in the state tournament at Ridder are happy with the facility & seemingly glad to play there.

[tbhockey17]

I would love to play at the Excel but when there are only 1,000 fans it makes it seem much much bigger then it already is. The fact is girls high school hockey does not attract enough fans to a good idea for the girls to play at the Excel. It makes the crouds look smaller then they are. Have you watched a class A boys game at the Excel. The place looks empty even though there are over 1,000 fans. It would be just as bad for the girls if they moved it there. I would much rather play in an Arena where it is totally packed and the crowd has an effect on the game over where the boys get to play and have the crowd be not factor in at all.

[dave1381]

Also, in most title ix cases I've heard of, the whole athletic program needs to be looked at, and you can't base the lawsuit on an item-by-item comparison. You might spend more on men's tennis than women's tennis, but that's not grounds for a lawsuit if you've made up for it somewhere else. In this case, I guess since the state athletic governance is being sued, you'd have to look at the state as a whole to see whether the state is not compliant, wouldn't you?

[ARM]

I have attended the girls' tourney at both the Fairgrounds Coliseum and Ridder Arena. The first held more people, but it is a lousy venue for a hockey game. In Ridder, the event was able to generate some atmosphere, but mainly for NSP vs SSP, which was a conference rivalry game. I'm guessing that in a couple of years it will outgrow Ridder anyway, but really only for marquee matchups. I don't see too many people showing for the small-school games.

If the courts ruled that both the boys' and girls' tournaments must be played at the same location, then the entire state tournament concept is in big trouble. I would think that qualifying games along the way would have to be held at the same arena. In some sports, large school and small school games take place at the same time at different locations. If one cannot assign different venues based on gender, I would think it would also be illegal to do so based on enrollment. As a taxpayer, I would at that point recommend ending all state tournaments in all sports, to ensure that no student is treated unfairly with respect to some other student. When budgets are tight, I hate to think that state money is being spent defending against such frivolous lawsuits.

[brookyone]

The St. Paul Pioneer Press has a nice summary of records & stats for girls high school teams / players by conference (metro) in todays sports page for those in the MPLS/ St. Paul metro area. A couple of U of M recruits putting up good numbers as expected. McKenzie & Philipczyk in particular. There are some new / lessor known girls scoring well also & making names for themselves. No surprise to see SSP with four of the top six scorers in their conference.

[tfmffan]

I watched both philipczyak and mckenzie at the national camp a double of years ago and philipczyak was very impressive. I thought she was the best forward from Minn. and very surprised not to see her again the following year at the National Camp.

[brookyone]

Never seen Philipczyk play but I'll get my chance the end of this month as she's playing in what I assume is a holiday tournament (four straight games scheduled) at a rink just a mile or two from my location. Looking forward to it.

[ARM]

Judge rules no change in the site of the Minnesota High School Girls State Tournament for 2003-2004:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/503/4282868.html

[brookyone]

It sounds as though the attorney for the plaintiffs is planning on further legal action to force the MSHSL to change the site sometime in the future. Stupid lawsuit in my opinion. It would make too much sense to wait until such a time as when Ridder capacity becomes inadequate for the event...if that ever occurs, when the MSHSL would be motivated to move on their own. I don't want to advocate for the denial of the right to file suit for the 11 girls (I think) but I can't help but think, shouldn't they just concern themselves with playing hockey ?

[brookyone]

I was able to take in 5 games at the holiday "Stampede" tournament this last week. Teams competing were Moorhead, Eagan, Stillwater and Hudson (Wi.) I was looking forward to getting my first look at Gopher recruit Jennelle Philipczyk and she didn't disappoint, with a boatload of goals / assists. She has good speed, stick handling skills, a good shot & what I noticed most, that ability to be in the right spot and finish around the net. The ability to finish around the net is the one / only thing I think is occasionally, a missing commodity in womens hockey & Jennelle, although a little on the small side, should provide that for the Gophers.

I was also very impressed with the play of her teamates Molly Doyle and Ashley Reinhardt. Doyle in particular is a very speedy forward & very strong on her skates. They both look like excellent D1 prospects to me.

The biggest treat in the tournament was the play of Stillwater forward Chelsey Jones who's name I had seen many times in the box scores but had never had the opportunity to watch. She's just a sophomore but I expect if you follow girls high school hockey in Minnesota you'll hear her name in the next two plus years. She scored four of her teams five vs. Eagan, two against Moorhead & three vs. Hudson. She pretty much blew by, through & around opposing defenseman the whole tournament. She was an honorable mention as a freshman during all state selection last season and with somewhere around thirty goals so far this season I wouldn't be suprised to see her make all state at the end of this season. In my opinion the best player in the tournament and a definite division 1 prospect.

Following some of the other holiday tournaments around the Twin Cities in the media scoreboards, I noticed another Minnesota recruit, Erica Mckenzie of Hastings was scoring in bunches. I think Hastings was playing in the Schwan cup at the Xcel in St. Paul

One other girl lighting the lamp frequently this season & creating quite a buzz is Allie Thunstrom from North Saint Paul. A sophomore who was also honorable mention as a freshman last season with over 30 goals so far.

Okay, mark me ready for the resumption of play in the WCHA and the second half.

[ARM]

brookyone, Thanks for the info. If the Star Tribune's site is correct, both Doyle & Reinhardt are seniors. I watched Stillwater last year, but don't remember Jones; I'll have to make a point to catch her in action this season. North St. Paul as a whole is a strong team; I believe you are correct that Thunstrom is their top player.

I think you are correct about finishing being a weak point of many players. I'm not sure if this is because most girls started skating first, and then became hockey players later. It may also be that they don't play as much boot hockey and pickup games as boys often do. In any case, a lot of the girls can't consistantly hit a spot high in the net when they get the goalie down.

[brookyone]

SSP's Maggie Fisher scores 5 goals in the Kaposia Classic holiday tournament title game. Sure, she has that great supporting cast but this young lady obviously knows how to find the net...and the unbeaten streak continues. Wish I'da caught this game.

[ARM]

I saw where 8th grader Kacy Ambroz of New Prague scored four goals against Northfield yesterday, including a pure hat to start the game. Not the toughest competition, but a kid that can score at that age is worth watching.