Girls Prep Hockey

[toots]

Originally posted by vas
Please be specific, so as parents we can be better informed which school is best for our kids.

Which coaches really know how to coach the grinders ALONG with the stars? Which ones? Does anyone know? So far its still ONLY RESOR AT NOBLES as subsatantiated by ref11
I have hesitated getting in this discussion, but my many posts give me away as a Lawrence Academy parent anyway, so here goes. I can't sit by and let Tom Resor get the only glory (no slam intended, just school rivalry!) :D
I can vouch that Laurie Mutch knows how to coach her stars (developed at club programs earlier in their youth, and the vast majority still play club) along with the lesser skilled players. However, I have no first-hand experience of how she conducts a practice because my daughter would be mortified if I came to watch practices. It is not that Laurie bans parents, but it (prep) really is different than the club teams and it is her team and she doesn't need a bunch of parents counting who gets more time on the power play unit than who. We parents all know who are the top-skilled players but by the time your daughter is in HS, give it up. There is an 'understanding' that there will be no griping from parent to coach about playing time, etc. It is not appropriate. I do know my daughter got better, but it is as much due to Laurie's TEAM development and her own self confidence than as to which drills were run. As a former Olympic-level forward, that is understandably her forte, but she will become a more well-rounded coach with some more years under her belt.
Off the ice, Laurie cares about her player's grades, consistently expecting their best, she cares about their nutrition and rest, she cares about helping them meet their goals (although those goals do have to be realistic - she cannot manufacture a D1 player if the skill isn't there.) Her door is open and although she in not the warm-and-fuzzy type to outsiders, the girls know she cares about them. She looks out for and uses her influence, of which she has earned, to create some special opportunities for them. I have watched her delight in their silly antics while not losing their respect. This particular LA team enjoyed being a team first and it starts at the top. Everyone had a role and that could change based on strength of opponent, injuries or illness, or attitude.
Is Laurie Mutch perfect? Nope. No one is and there are some unhappinesses amongst some people about some things. But 5 years from now, decisions on who got benched for what game will fade and the teammates will always have their fond memories and realize what they accomplished together, with Laurie at the helm.

Why do these kids have to play Club Hockey to get noticed? Even the great ones have to play club hockey. Why can't the coaches get the College coaches to come to the games?
Many opinions out there, but I think these prep girls do NOT NEED to play club anymore. It absolutely does cut into their needed down time. Maybe it is only a two-hour practice committment, but then you get to drive sometimes two hours to play a meaningless game (meaningless in the great scheme of things.) The college coaches know where the players are. Wednesday prep games are great for that - college coaches are usually a little busy themselves on the weekends. You won't see college coaches at a normal club Sunday game. Now, of course, the coaches attend the tourneys and festivals. But I disagree that the players need to participate in club level hockey. I very much do agree with points made by BKdad and MetMary.

I don't think it inappropriate for you, Vas, to ask which programs do right by the girls. You don't want to make the wrong assumptions. But make sure your daughter is there to give as much as she gets. She may or may not develop into a "star", but that is as much up to her as her coach.

[ref11]

It's obvious that club hockey does cut into their time, but in most cases it's one day a week for a couple hours or less. Still, time is time.

But, is it true that a kid HAS to play club hockey? Do they have to or do they want to? If you're a 16 year old girl and somebody comes along and says, "Come play with us - we'll win a National Champiuonship with you", how many would say, "Naw, I'm too busy." Or, how many parents would say, "Naw, she's too busy?"

In an ideal world, prep/high school hockey and club hockey would lead parallel lives. I *think* that's how it works in Minnesota. In their case, they have so many good high school programs that club teams are often for kids who want to take it less seriously, maybe because they have another primary sport they do at school like swimming. But, that's not how it is elsewhere.

Kids don't win Nobel prizes or MacArthur grants while in high school. They might learn some of the fundamental skills that might to that some day in high school or prep school. It would be great if that same idea applied to sports like hockey. Kids should learn the skills that will carry them on to greater things later.

BKDad and MetMary are "spot on" with their observations. Kids are playing Club hockey because during the Thanksgiving, Christmas and March breaks they want to play, and the chance to compete in the states / regionals / nationals, it is a great incentive to keep playing. Prep kids play very few Sunday games during their Prep season. The longer season of the Clubs allow them to skate once a week (if they want) in September / October, plus the above mentioned holidays.

RE: VAS's question about others beyond Nobles, Tom Resor. I have observed the coach's mentioned, Lawrence, Loomis, Pomfret, Hotchkiss, Berkshire & Cushing and their practices (at least once) in the last three years. Some I have seen off and on going back many years. I would place them in the same catagory as Resor. As mentioned previously, I am sure they are others who deserve mention that I have not observed.

On recruiting. The college coachs make direct calls to the Prep coach's and vice versa. The college coachs make the rounds at the Prep pre Christmas holiday tournaments. In addition they make the Rhode Island Thanksgiving, Polar Bear Christmas, NAHA Labor Day, and Mid West Tournaments I am sure I am missing. They poke around at the summer camps like Rink Sport and others. There is every incentive for club and Prep coachs to place the player at the best fit college for the reasons articulated by MetMary.

Hope this helps answer; who else besides Nobles, and why play club and prep. :cool:

[SAMMEE]

If you look at the rosters for most of the Women's college teams the girls are mostly from Canada or a Prep/Club player. Are there some who only played prep school - sure - there are also some from Europe. They will always find the best players no matter where they play.

Prep School does not mean you are the best - it usually means you can afford the tuition - some of the girls I saw playing were average Tier Two players. Plus many of the better girls transferred in for Junior or Senior year to get the academics or coach's connections. Hockey is still a limited sport and most of the college's with teams are not accepting players with sub 1000 SAT scores.

Unless your district has an extensive high level girls' program - MN sends a lot of girls to college without prep school - I think that the combination prep/club will give your child an edge. Someone mentioned the travel committment but with a lot of the top travel teams some of the girls only show up for the minimum 10 games to be eligible for Nationals. A lot of kids are flying in to tournaments like Polar Bears and get 5/6 games in over the week. You have to do what is best for your child and what will make her happy!!

[MetMary]

Your missing the point - the choices that we made may not be the correct choices for your daughter. The first question should be academically where does she fit - if she is a B student in public schools , it may not be a good fit into say Andover, Exeter, Milton or St. Marks. Hockey should be the last question - use it as a vehicle to get where you want. Talk to each coach and get a feel for them and their personality - when you visit the school - talk to the players (your child should talk to them) - the players are usually more open with another player more than with the parents. Remember the coach can only take a player so far the player has to have the drive and heart to continue - something a coach can not teach.

[vas]

[QUOTE=BKDad]It's obvious that club hockey does cut into their time, but in most cases it's one day a week for a couple hours or less. Still, time is time.

But, is it true that a kid HAS to play club hockey? Do they have to or do they want to? If you're a 16 year old girl and somebody comes along and says, "Come play with us - we'll win a National Champiuonship with you", how many would say, "Naw, I'm too busy." Or, how many parents would say, "Naw, she's too busy?"
QUOTE]

If a kid wants to get a good education and be able to have many college options when it comes time to submit those college apps, then there is NO TIME for a kid to play on TWO hockey teams especially in 5th and 6th form.

That kid had better say "I am too busy" if she really wants to compete where it REALLY matters, and its not in Women's Hockey! In the end, college coaches and ADMISSIONS are NOT the same. GRADES and SCORES matter much more than winning a National championship.

BKDAD, I am sure YOU agree with this! So I am not trying to be combative.

I still just want to know which schools have coaches who keep the BEST INTEREST of the player at heart? Which coaches really know what they are doing? and why?

[vas]

I have hesitated getting in this discussion, but my many posts give me away as a Lawrence Academy parent anyway, so here goes. I can't sit by and let Tom Resor get the only glory (no slam intended, just school rivalry!) :D
I can vouch that Laurie Mutch knows how to coach her stars (developed at club programs earlier in their youth, and the vast majority still play club) along with the lesser skilled players. However, I have no first-hand experience of how she conducts a practice because my daughter would be mortified if I came to watch practices. It is not that Laurie bans parents, but it (prep) really is different than the club teams and it is her team and she doesn't need a bunch of parents counting who gets more time on the power play unit than who. We parents all know who are the top-skilled players but by the time your daughter is in HS, give it up. There is an 'understanding' that there will be no griping from parent to coach about playing time, etc. It is not appropriate. I do know my daughter got better, but it is as much due to Laurie's TEAM development and her own self confidence than as to which drills were run. As a former Olympic-level forward, that is understandably her forte, but she will become a more well-rounded coach with some more years under her belt.
Off the ice, Laurie cares about her player's grades, consistently expecting their best, she cares about their nutrition and rest, she cares about helping them meet their goals (although those goals do have to be realistic - she cannot manufacture a D1 player if the skill isn't there.) Her door is open and although she in not the warm-and-fuzzy type to outsiders, the girls know she cares about them. She looks out for and uses her influence, of which she has earned, to create some special opportunities for them. I have watched her delight in their silly antics while not losing their respect. This particular LA team enjoyed being a team first and it starts at the top. Everyone had a role and that could change based on strength of opponent, injuries or illness, or attitude.
Is Laurie Mutch perfect? Nope. No one is and there are some unhappinesses amongst some people about some things. But 5 years from now, decisions on who got benched for what game will fade and the teammates will always have their fond memories and realize what they accomplished together, with Laurie at the helm.


Many opinions out there, but I think these prep girls do NOT NEED to play club anymore. It absolutely does cut into their needed down time. Maybe it is only a two-hour practice committment, but then you get to drive sometimes two hours to play a meaningless game (meaningless in the great scheme of things.) The college coaches know where the players are. Wednesday prep games are great for that - college coaches are usually a little busy themselves on the weekends. You won't see college coaches at a normal club Sunday game. Now, of course, the coaches attend the tourneys and festivals. But I disagree that the players need to participate in club level hockey. I very much do agree with points made by BKdad and MetMary.

I don't think it inappropriate for you, Vas, to ask which programs do right by the girls. You don't want to make the wrong assumptions. But make sure your daughter is there to give as much as she gets. She may or may not develop into a "star", but that is as much up to her as her coach.

THANK YOU, THanK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! These are the inside tips I was looking for, thank you for taking the time to share your experience with me and everyone else.

You and REF11 are doing a great service to others.

So far, then Resor at Nobles and Mutch at Lawrence will be on my list.

We're getting there slowly but surely. Does anyone else have a substantial opinion on a prep school and coach?

[ref11]

I have hesitated getting in this discussion, but my many posts give me away as a Lawrence Academy parent anyway, so here goes. I can't sit by and let Tom Resor get the only glory (no slam intended, just school rivalry!) :D
I can vouch that Laurie Mutch knows how to coach her stars (developed at club programs earlier in their youth, and the vast majority still play club) along with the lesser skilled players. However, I have no first-hand experience of how she conducts a practice because my daughter would be mortified if I came to watch practices. It is not that Laurie bans parents, but it (prep) really is different than the club teams and it is her team and she doesn't need a bunch of parents counting who gets more time on the power play unit than who. We parents all know who are the top-skilled players but by the time your daughter is in HS, give it up. There is an 'understanding' that there will be no griping from parent to coach about playing time, etc. It is not appropriate. I do know my daughter got better, but it is as much due to Laurie's TEAM development and her own self confidence than as to which drills were run. As a former Olympic-level forward, that is understandably her forte, but she will become a more well-rounded coach with some more years under her belt.
Off the ice, Laurie cares about her player's grades, consistently expecting their best, she cares about their nutrition and rest, she cares about helping them meet their goals (although those goals do have to be realistic - she cannot manufacture a D1 player if the skill isn't there.) Her door is open and although she in not the warm-and-fuzzy type to outsiders, the girls know she cares about them. She looks out for and uses her influence, of which she has earned, to create some special opportunities for them. I have watched her delight in their silly antics while not losing their respect. This particular LA team enjoyed being a team first and it starts at the top. Everyone had a role and that could change based on strength of opponent, injuries or illness, or attitude.
Is Laurie Mutch perfect? Nope. No one is and there are some unhappinesses amongst some people about some things. But 5 years from now, decisions on who got benched for what game will fade and the teammates will always have their fond memories and realize what they accomplished together, with Laurie at the helm.


Many opinions out there, but I think these prep girls do NOT NEED to play club anymore. It absolutely does cut into their needed down time. Maybe it is only a two-hour practice committment, but then you get to drive sometimes two hours to play a meaningless game (meaningless in the great scheme of things.) The college coaches know where the players are. Wednesday prep games are great for that - college coaches are usually a little busy themselves on the weekends. You won't see college coaches at a normal club Sunday game. Now, of course, the coaches attend the tourneys and festivals. But I disagree that the players need to participate in club level hockey. I very much do agree with points made by BKdad and MetMary.

I don't think it inappropriate for you, Vas, to ask which programs do right by the girls. You don't want to make the wrong assumptions. But make sure your daughter is there to give as much as she gets. She may or may not develop into a "star", but that is as much up to her as her coach.


"Spot on" Toots! :cool:

[BKDad]

Another consideration is that prep schools are not always better for any one kid. Just as not all prep schools are created the same academically, the same can be said for public high schools. From a sociological standpoint, there's an argument that can be made in favor of public schools over prep.

Some kids really don't like the small classes found at a prep school, and actually do better at a public high school. The opposite is obviously true as well.

Some kids don't want to live away from home starting at age 13; they're not in that much of a hurry to "grow up" and be an adult. At least that's how they look at it. Others can't get out of the house fast enough.

There's just too many variables to ponder.

The question that should be asked is: If (big if) a, or the main reason for going to a prep school is for the hockey development, what are the school's credentials for that aspect of prep school life? (I think that is what vas is trying to get.)

My pet question, if that's allowed, is: What are the alternatives? If a kid is just plain screwed by not going to a prep school, it would be good to know that somewhere along the way.

[vas]

The question that should be asked is: If (big if) a, or the main reason for going to a prep school is for the hockey development, what are the school's credentials for that aspect of prep school life? (I think that is what vas is trying to get.)


My pet question, if that's allowed, is: What are the alternatives? If a kid is just plain screwed by not going to a prep school, it would be good to know that somewhere along the way.[/QUOTE] BKDAD

I learned today that at Choate, kids going to the National Tournament cannot get an excused abscence and are put on what they call "restriction". So it seems Choate does not support Hockey outside of its program for their students. Any comments on that?

[hockeyyfan]

[I learned today that at Choate, kids going to the National Tournament cannot get an excused abscence and are put on what they call "restriction". So it seems Choate does not support Hockey outside of its program for their students. Any comments on that?

If you took 5 or 6 days off for the opening of trout season the school would treat you the same. They are in the education business, not minor league hockey for college business.

I don't think a kid is 'screwed' if they don't go to the preps. There are alternatives such as the upper end clubs (US), or NAHA, and Canada has an extensive network of leagues.

If you want to pick a prep only to give your kid the best chance to be seen by colleges or developed by 'a coach', you're doing it for the wrong reason and will have a 1 in 6 chance of being happy with that 1 chance being the fact your kid was probably going to get there anyway.

Yes there are a lot of good teaching coaches in the preps and yes when the budgets allow (they are tiny budgets at D3) the college coaches come to the games. But in the big picture visit 3 or more schools and find one your kid (not you) is comfortable with and the coach, and go into it with the expectation they will get a superb education if they apply themselves and the rest is gravy.

If getting a D1 ride is a do or die strategy for going to a prep save the money and go with one of the major clubs or NAHA. The preps are really about the education.

[goodsport]

[QUOTE=hockeyyfan]... they will get a superb education if they apply themselves ... The preps are really about the education.

Well said! Important that we all keep in mind that the same is true for college.

[vas]

[
The preps are really about the education.[/QUOTE] hockeyyfan.

Do you feel that is true about all preps? Can you tell me which schools you think are "all about education" and why you think that? Can it be possible that they are ALL in this category? Can you be more specific?

For example, and correct me if I am wrong, because I am new at this, I have been told that Choate is about education but Cushing is not. Although I also heard that the Cushing coach does not allow his girls to play club hockey during the regular prep season. I know that academically they are miles apart.

I hear parents purport that they have chosen a school because of "education", but then the conversation always switches to hockey, hockey, hockey.

[ref11]

VAS

Preps are more about education and total experience as posted by many viewers, DO NOT (sorry to yell) choose to go to a prep solely on the basis of hockey.

Regarding the topic of conversation always drifting to hockey I think it is natural because; 1) we are all hockey nuts, 2) Hockey at preps is November -February, the fall and spring sports are only 2 months.

In general (IMO) preps fall into three groups; 1) The not so academically challenging, 2) The challenging 3) Harder to get into than Harvard (ie Groton). Don't let this generalization disuade you, it is all about the right fit. Paul Kennedy (Cushing) can get your daughter into Harvard, Yale or Princeton if she takes the right course load and is an all star in the classroom as well as on the ice. But look at the postings for D1 recruits and see how many Americans took Ivy spots. Not many.

Good luck:cool:

[BKDad]

But look at the postings for D1 recruits and see how many Americans took Ivy spots. Not many.
Why is that? Is it because Canadians are prepared better for the academics? Are they better hockey players in general? Are their hockey backgrounds more compatible with Ivy type hockey?

(What I mean by the latter is things like: Are they more coachable? Are they more team oriented? Better basic skills?)

[vas]

Why is that? Is it because Canadians are prepared better for the academics? Are they better hockey players in general? Are their hockey backgrounds more compatible with Ivy type hockey?

(What I mean by the latter is things like: Are they more coachable? Are they more team oriented? Better basic skills?)

Well I do know somethng for sure, Ivys are NOT ALLOWED to give athletic Scholarships to Americans. While they are allowed to give Canandians and other forgein born applicants Scholarships. I do not know if they fall into "athletic" Scholarships but nontheless, coaches are allowed to offer Canandian recruits $$$$$. And if that isn't enough they also lower the AI (Academic Index) for Canadians.

Obviously, our girls main competition are not other American girls.

[daffee]

vas I just read one of your posts and I am going to assume your family is in Canada. I would suggest attending prep games and practices, but that may not be as simple for you as it was for us here in the US. So check out the NEPSAC website. You can learn alot about the track record of the teams. Boardingschoolreview website give you overall academic and extracurricular information. On the schools' websites look at their list of recent matriculations -- that will tell you in general how academically strong the student body is. I assume your daughter will be applying next fall. Cast a wide net. Review for the SSAT. It is the intangibles you will see on your campus visit that hook a student into wanting to attend a particular school. The girls on the team, the teachers in the classroom, the look and feel of the campus. I know a lot more know about the prep coaches than I did 4 years ago but the main way we got to know the prep coaches and their philosophy was through meeting them on campus and summer showcases. You can tell alot about a coach by observing them coach your child and a team. I know you have been asking for people's opinions about prep coaches and their commitment to development. From what I have seen, development is like a three legged stool. One leg is the prep, one is the club, and the other is tournaments, hockey festivals, and summer showcases/leagues. I completely agree with the accolades that have been said about some prep coaches and teams I have seen mentioned on this thread-- solid through and through. Good Luck!

[ref11]

Why is that? Is it because Canadians are prepared better for the academics? Are they better hockey players in general? Are their hockey backgrounds more compatible with Ivy type hockey?

(What I mean by the latter is things like: Are they more coachable? Are they more team oriented? Better basic skills?)

My bias is:

1) Canadians are foreign applicants. Some have english as a second language. This helps getting a break in admissions.

2) Are there better players in general? I don't think so, but there seem to be more better players. Look how deep the Canadian bench was during the Olympics. :cool:

[BKDad]

2) Are there better players in general? I don't think so, but there seem to be more better players. Look how deep the Canadian bench was during the Olympics.

Is that a situation that can be fixed? Not only for the entire hockey body but for any one kid?

[vas]

vas I just read one of your posts and I am going to assume your family is in Canada. I would suggest attending prep games and practices, but that may not be as simple for you as it was for us here in the US. So check out the NEPSAC website. You can learn alot about the track record of the teams. Boardingschoolreview website give you overall academic and extracurricular information. On the schools' websites look at their list of recent matriculations -- that will tell you in general how academically strong the student body is. I assume your daughter will be applying next fall. Cast a wide net. Review for the SSAT. It is the intangibles you will see on your campus visit that hook a student into wanting to attend a particular school. The girls on the team, the teachers in the classroom, the look and feel of the campus. I know a lot more know about the prep coaches than I did 4 years ago but the main way we got to know the prep coaches and their philosophy was through meeting them on campus and summer showcases. You can tell alot about a coach by observing them coach your child and a team. I know you have been asking for people's opinions about prep coaches and their commitment to development. From what I have seen, development is like a three legged stool. One leg is the prep, one is the club, and the other is tournaments, hockey festivals, and summer showcases/leagues. I completely agree with everything that has been said about all the coaches and teams I have seen mentioned on this thread-- solid through and through. Good Luck!

Thank you for the references to those websites, that is VERY helpful. I wish I could watch the coaches in practice as you suggest. Because I have always picked a club based on the coach's knowledge of the game and his ON-ICE coaching skills. If they have the Off-Ice skill thats icing on the cake, but thats really my job as a parent.

When you send your kid far away to school, the off-ice skills of a coach become more important.

I am very interested in learning how a coach can "get your kid into an Ivy" like ref11 suggests. Can they? I have been told not to expect that in some preps like Berkshire, Taft, and Pomfret. That they used to do that, but not as much any more. They say coaches are tired of parents who want the coach to perform miracles. So does that mean even the deserving ones don't get any help? But do the girls even NEED the coaches help?

Isn't it the college office at the school who has that job? (For those of you that have not read all my posts, please know that I am fully aware of the acceptance rates at the top colleges and Universites in the USA. 10% Harvard to about 30% Cornell)

[vas]

Review for the SSAT. It is the intangibles you will see on your campus visit that hook a student into wanting to attend a particular school. !

Yes, my daughter already took it. I was shocked when she scored very high on the test, (97%) because everyone told me how hard it is. Don't get me wrong, she is smart, but everone was so emphatic about the difficulty of the test. I am just happy and so is she that she did well. Now the question is which school. I have received alot of advice on this site and its been very helpful.

Is the SSAT a big factor in getting in as the SAT is for college? I assume so.