Girls Prep Hockey

[hockeytalk]

Just looking at usahockey national scores. I think it's interesting that Shattuck SM lost to the Quakers which appears to be the home squad. Does anyone know anything about this team? I have not heard of them.

[goodsport]

Just looking at usahockey national scores. I think it's interesting that Shattuck SM lost to the Quakers which appears to be the home squad. Does anyone know anything about this team? I have not heard of them.
The Quakers are a solid U16 out of Pennsylvania, new I think to Tier I. The SSM team they defeated is the younger, less talented group out of MN, not the defending national champs.

[BKDad]

You don't see many college coaches at the Usa Hockey Nationals in Early April because by that time they have already seen them at the Summer programs such as Brown U, Cedorchuks PFG Camp, CODP in Minne, HNIB in August, Assabet Tourney in October, the Brown Tourney in Nov, and the Polar Bears in Dec. NONE of these events are PREP SCHOOL events, they are ALL CLUB team events.
Okay, that's a good answer.

I am still puzzled as to precisely what your point is. Is it that the prep school hockey experience is a sham, or at least not what it's purported to be? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, either; you may have a very good point.

[vas]

Okay, that's a good answer.

I am still puzzled as to precisely what your point is. Is it that the prep school hockey experience is a sham, or at least not what it's purported to be? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, either; you may have a very good point.

I'm happy to know that you are not being sarcastic, because I am just trying to see how others feel about the quality of the coaching in prep schools. I feel that some people may be disillusioned and have a general idea that ALL prep school hockey is terrific and that the coaches are gods, when in fact, i feel that it varies enormously form school to school.

Which prep school coaches REALLY know the game enough to run GOOD practices which leads to development? I haven't seen alot of practices myself, that is why I am asking. I have seen Tom Resor run a few and I can say he does know what he is doing, so are there others?

In club hockey, usually parents have much more opportunity to watch a coach run their practices. Practices are crucial. I have seen teams that have no idea what to do in a SPECIAL TEAM situation game after game.

I know that most of the coaches, perhaps all of them also teach. I feel that they are teachers first, then they were asked to coach a team since they know how to skate and played hockey in HS or/college. That's it, and I feel some coaches wing it, because there is very little accountability from the administration since the boys programs get the real coaches, where the priority is. People like Tom Resor and others who have kids playing may have their heart in the job more than coaches who have been coaching the girls teams for long periods of time just because they couldn't find anyone else to do it.

Getting back to college exposure, I feel club teams have more of an interest in it, because those coaches are accountable to the parents and will ensure the success of the program. Prep school coaches are sort of "tenured" their jobs are secure, therefore no accountability to the parents and even to the school administrators.

So I just want people to be better informed before they decide where to send their kids. Don't assume that just because a coach has a winning team lately and has been around for a long time that they know what they are doing to develop your kid.

I think the best barometer is to see if the same kid who was sitting on the bench for the entire game at the beginnig of the season is still sitting there at the end of the season. (i'm not talking about kids disciplinary issues) Then that coach should let the kid play JV or let someone else do the job.

Sorry for going on and on, but I hope I was clearer this time.

[BKDad]

I'm happy to know that you are not being sarcastic, because I am just trying to see how others feel about the quality of the coaching in prep schools. I feel that some people may be disillusioned and have a general idea that ALL prep school hockey is terrific and that the coaches are gods, when in fact, i feel that it varies enormously form school to school.
Okay then.

My observation, and it is one that has been stated by others elsewhere on this board, is that despite all the arm-waving, most girls (maybe boys, too, but I don't know) aren't very well prepared to play hockey by the time they get to high/prep school age. In particular, the basic skills like skating, passing, and shooting aren't there. My own belief is that is because games are emphasized above all else. Even at a relatively young age there's way more games than can be justified based on learning the game.

Why is this? Again, this is only my opinion, but it is because this is what the customer base, aka parents, want. I'll compare this to parents of musicians. The equivalent in music would be for a kid to give a couple performances a week, with the practices designed around the pieces that will be performed. That allows little time for the fundamentals, unless they get that on their own with a private lesson of some kind along with practice at home.

With hockey, you have a somewhat different problem these days. Just where do you get practice in the fundamentals? Maybe at a camp or clinic. Or, maybe a kid practices on inlines. Once a kid goes to a real hockey practice, they do some basic drills and work on game skills. Maybe up north where the ponds freeze on a consistent basis, kids can go work on passing or skating edges. Where else do they do it?

By the time high school hits, most club programs are built around prep kids. Very often the teams are "split season" or only get together for tournaments. You can find this out pretty quickly by looking at the schedules on the team web pages. So, kids who don't go to prep school or have a good high school program are on their own. They either have to be very good, or very motivated to be creative enough to find a solution for them.

Back to the customer base thing. On many occasions I've heard club coaches try to promote skills clinics or something similar. Most of the parents scream bloody murder, and are very clear that in their view that would be a waste of time and they would not support it. So, what's a coach to do?

Do coaches at prep schools take the time, or even have the time, to work on skills for the kids who aren't already masters? If a kid isn't already very good, will they improve at a prep school?

I hope this isn't being perceived as whining or just being combative. I'd really like an answer or at least some helpful hints.

[vas]

Do coaches at prep schools take the time, or even have the time, to work on skills for the kids who aren't already masters? If a kid isn't already very good, will they improve at a prep school?

In this case, these kids should be on the JV team. Why do coaches take kids if they can't develop them to play? Just to make a Varsity team? Can't they just admit they don't have the talent to make a Varsity team?

Does anyone out there know which coaches know the game enough to run good practices? I don't want to know about "reputations". I want someone to tell me which coaches know how to coach, really kknow how. I don't want to know that "this guy is a great coach" without telling me what makes him/her a great coach. Knowing someone for a long time, does not mean he/she can run a practice. Wins don't count, I want to hear about what the coaches responsibilites are, what should we expect from them? Why do these kids have to play Club Hockey to get noticed? Even the great ones have to play club hockey. Why can't the coaches get the College coaches to come to the games?

[ref11]

I think the best barometer is to see if the same kid who was sitting on the bench for the entire game at the beginnig of the season is still sitting there at the end of the season. (i'm not talking about kids disciplinary issues) Then that coach should let the kid play JV or let someone else do the job.

Sorry for going on and on, but I hope I was clearer this time.

I wish the sport of womens ice hockey was deep enough to make this a reality. Truth is there is IMO a significant drop off to JV hockey from varsity at the prep or hig school level. If this wasn't true your suggestion would be very practical.

To add another point of consideration is parents will choose a school with a strong record and wonder why their daughter will sit on the bench all season. The reason / solution / observations could be amongst the following: 1) Poor match of skills vs. school. The player would be better served at another school. Most coaches are upfront with players about this possibility, but parents still chase the name school. 2) Player comes in a strong program as a freshman and is matched physically as a 14 year old against 18 & 19 year old players. Coaches, as referenced Tom Resor, will work these players into practice, and the 14 year old will develop nicely, but will see little or no playing time when Nobles matchs up against a strong opponent like Choate. They will see a fair amount of ice time when they play a weaker oponent. In these instances I have seen these same girls go back to their club teams and against players of similar age, benefit handsomely and step up their play and confidence after grinding versus the older girls.

On practice time I have to give the preps an advantage over the clubs. Clubs usually get 1-2 practices in a week. Preps typically 4 practices a week. But clubs offset that with a longer season.

Just one different way of viewing things. :cool:

[vas]

On practice time I have to give the preps an advantage over the clubs. Clubs usually get 1-2 practices in a week. Preps typically 4 practices a week. But clubs offset that with a longer season.

They may practice more, but that does not mean the quality of the practices are better. With all the practice they do, there should be NO ONE sitting on the bench at the end of the season for more than 2 whole periods

So, finally somebody answered my question about which coach can actually run a practice and develop a player. Your answer was thorough and substantiated. So a confirmation on TOM RESOR, and NOBLES. Anyone else???

[hockeyyfan]

On practice time I have to give the preps an advantage over the clubs. Clubs usually get 1-2 practices in a week. Preps typically 4 practices a week. But clubs offset that with a longer season.
:

One other advantage of preps is unstructured ice time. My daughter spent at least as much time on the ice away from formal practice and games playing pickup with the boys varsity and other girls who could keep up. A good question to ask is if the ice is open all school year....when the ice isn't in use it was available for the kids so she would get up at 6 and skate until breakfast on a lot of days, or around lunch breaks....or on weekends around other games. They also had an excellent weight room and lifting programs for each girl and everything was 200 yards away from the dorm. If you are self motivated there's a lot of opportunity. She would never have had that with a club setting and didn't come from a cold state so no ice in the backyard (although they did use my skates on the road when we had an ice storm....asphalt 1, skates 0)

Prep isn't for everyone, but it worked for her.

[vas]

One other advantage of preps is

Prep isn't for everyone, but it worked for her.

That is probably true, but my question is which preps?

They cannot all be the same? Be more specific, if you can. I am trying to get people to not be so general. Give credit where credit is due. I would like for someone to substantiate why a particular prep school hockey program is good.

So far, its ONLY Tom Resor and NOBLES, isn't there another coach and another school who deserves credit for running a good program?

[ref11]

That is probably true, but my question is which preps?

They cannot all be the same? Be more specific, if you can. I am trying to get people to not be so general. Give credit where credit is due. I would like for someone to substantiate why a particular prep school hockey program is good.

So far, its ONLY Tom Resor and NOBLES, isn't there another coach and another school who deserves credit for running a good program?


As previously posted.

Nobles, Cushing, Pomfret, Berkshire, Hotchkiss, Loomis, Lawrence. (NAHA excluded due to unique nature of program)

Common thread - tenure of coachs and ability to recruit, some with harder admissions standards to jump over.

Have observed their handling of players, development year over year.

Not sure what you are really after, I am sure their are other D1 & D2 coachs at the Club and Prep level that are not getting the credit they deserve. :cool:

[SAMMEE]

As people have said - preps are not for everyone. My oldest loved it and was a fouth line player. My youngest, first line player - one year and out - did not want to play soccer; lacrosse; field hockey or anything else and studying interfered with quality ice time.

There is still not a large pool of girl hockey players so most preps do not have the numbers for JV or thirds. Most of the games I attended - a "top" school had two good lines - the others had one. As far as "development", I did not see much but the hockey coach was also a math teacher. Some of the other schools the coach may only coach. Travel clubs; I think most of the eastern clubs - Assabet; Ct Stars; Polar Bears etc have the best two or three players from different prep schools - so they are skimming off the top so there is probably more competition for PP or PK.

I am sure that different people and schools provide different experiences but I saw more recruiting of "top" players than actual development of younger players. Usually someone was trying to get a fellow travel team player to go to the same school as their child.

As some said - Be kind to your childred; they will pick your nursing home one day.

[allbrosca]

If it's hockey you want, I don't think NSA can be beat (but as you can see, I have a bias!). Two coaches who's primary job at NSA is coaching, practice ice virtually every day of the week at the Olympic Center, shinny hockey on Mirror Lake (the weather gods being willing!), 50+ games and lots of icetime (last year they carried 2 goalies and 12 skaters). And since there are only 80 kids in the school, the academic program is integrated into the athletic program so you don't miss a lot of school due to the competition schedule. I don't know if it qualifies as a prep school though.

[vas]

As previously posted.


Not sure what you are really after, I am sure their are other D1 & D2 coachs at the Club and Prep level that are not getting the credit they deserve. :cool:

I thought my questions and comments are pretty direct. Here they are again:

I would like for someone to substantiate why a particular prep school hockey program is good.

So far, its ONLY Tom Resor and NOBLES, isn't there another coach and another school who deserves credit for running a good program?

With all due respect, Your LIST gives NO specific reasons for why you think these programs are good. Just all generalities you would get of of a promo material from the school. Have you watched any of these coaches run a practices? That would mean at least you have seen them "coach"

[BKDad]

Travel clubs; I think most of the eastern clubs - Assabet; Ct Stars; Polar Bears etc have the best two or three players from different prep schools
I think the number is more like the best two or three players from each of the different prep schools. Most of these teams at the "Tier 1" level at U16 and above are composed of mostly prep school players. Public high school students are the rare exception.

Whether that is right or wrong is a different question.

[vas]

but I saw more recruiting of "top" players than actual development of younger players. SAMMEE


Which schools and which coaches are you referring to? Please be specific, so as parents we can be better informed which school is best for our kids.

I would expect this to be done at the college level. Prep school IS NOT college. Do you know of prep coaches who run their HS teams as if they are a college team? In my opinion, this type of program takes NO effort and expertise in coaching. These are perhaps "wannabe" college coaches.

Which coaches really know how to coach the grinders ALONG with the stars? Which ones? Does anyone know? So far its still ONLY RESOR AT NOBLES as subsatantiated by ref11

[vas]

I think the number is more like the best two or three players from each of the different prep schools. Most of these teams at the "Tier 1" level at U16 and above are composed of mostly prep school players. Public high school students are the rare exception.

Whether that is right or wrong is a different question.

Why are these players, the BEST, the CREAM of the CROP- having to play Club hockey? Doen't that cut into their education, study time, etc??? WHy spend all that $$$$ at prep and your kid STILL has to play club hockey?

Doesn't seem like the prep school coaches are doing their job. What exactly is their job if its not helping the girls improve so that they can get into a good college?

[MetMary]

You and your child have to make the best decision as to what school is the right fit. Our daughter played 4 years of prep hockey ~ she was "recruited" to play at a number of different schools. We have a box of letters, e-mails along with personal postcards from the coaches at the "top" prep schools. We visited the schools that we thought she would fit into academically, socially and athletically that were within a reasonable driving distance to our house. She made the decision ~ she felt comfortable at the school she chose and has not regretted her decision. The coaching was only a piece of the pie. Is your child going to like the school if the coach leaves? We also did the same for college - we visited the schools on unofficial visits and then let her make the decision as to which schools would she like to make an official visit to. In the end ~she made the decision of which college she would like to attend ~ the same rules apply as the prep decision will she still want to attend the school if the coach left, is the school the right fit in all aspects not just hockey.

[BKDad]

Why are these players, the BEST, the CREAM of the CROP- having to play Club hockey? Doen't that cut into their education, study time, etc??? WHy spend all that $$$$ at prep and your kid STILL has to play club hockey?

It's obvious that club hockey does cut into their time, but in most cases it's one day a week for a couple hours or less. Still, time is time.

But, is it true that a kid HAS to play club hockey? Do they have to or do they want to? If you're a 16 year old girl and somebody comes along and says, "Come play with us - we'll win a National Champiuonship with you", how many would say, "Naw, I'm too busy." Or, how many parents would say, "Naw, she's too busy?"

In an ideal world, prep/high school hockey and club hockey would lead parallel lives. I *think* that's how it works in Minnesota. In their case, they have so many good high school programs that club teams are often for kids who want to take it less seriously, maybe because they have another primary sport they do at school like swimming. But, that's not how it is elsewhere.

Kids don't win Nobel prizes or MacArthur grants while in high school. They might learn some of the fundamental skills that might to that some day in high school or prep school. It would be great if that same idea applied to sports like hockey. Kids should learn the skills that will carry them on to greater things later.

[vas]

You and your child have to make the best decision as to what school is the right fit. Our daughter played 4 years of prep hockey ~ she was "recruited" to play at a number of different schools. We have a box of letters, e-mails along with personal postcards from the coaches at the "top" prep schools. We visited the schools that we thought she would fit into academically, socially and athletically that were within a reasonable driving distance to our house. She made the decision ~ she felt comfortable at the school she chose and has not regretted her decision. The coaching was only a piece of the pie. Is your child going to like the school if the coach leaves? We also did the same for college - we visited the schools on unofficial visits and then let her make the decision as to which schools would she like to make an official visit to. In the end ~she made the decision of which college she would like to attend ~ the same rules apply as the prep decision will she still want to attend the school if the coach left, is the school the right fit in all aspects not just hockey.

So again, a simple question, which school or schools did you think were the best coaching and academics etc.????That is all I am trying to find out, and everyone keeps beating around the bush.

Please sustantiate your choices, this way I can start with a list of recommendations. I'd really appreciate it, really.