Petition against DivIII changes

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by Rolevio
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that on the petition there are at least 2 signees that signed only to get other people to visit political websitres/petitions, and one fake singature from a Don Sweeny. Bothered, not really because it's expected. I expected much more than seems to be there. There will always be some garbage on a petition. The obvious fakes should probably be culled before sending the petition in.

BTW, who is actually going to get the list of names -- all the D-III schools?

[Timmah!]

Our eventual goal is to generate a large number of signatures, and then draft a well written letter (with attached petitions) to the President and Athletic Director of all the schools in Division 3. In addition, we will be sending out the petition to the media to try and generate negative press about the proposal. If enough press is generated we could have a considerable impact on outcome.

[bigfish]

Originally posted by tvanderpoel
Our eventual goal is to generate a large number of signatures, and then draft a well written letter (with attached petitions) to the President and Athletic Director of all the schools in Division 3. In addition, we will be sending out the petition to the media to try and generate negative press about the proposal. If enough press is generated we could have a considerable impact on outcome.
I'm glad you said could. Aside from the likelihood of most of the 'press' being in the areas of the effected schools, have you ever heard of people 'getting their backs up"?

[westerburg]

Originally posted by bigfish
I'm glad you said could. Aside from the likelihood of most of the 'press' being in the areas of the effected schools, have you ever heard of people 'getting their backs up"?

So no one should ever protest because it might get the other side's "backs up"? Interesting strategy. Glad Martin Luther King didn't use it.

[bigfish]

Originally posted by westerburg
So no one should ever protest because it might get the other side's "backs up"? Interesting strategy. Glad Martin Luther King didn't use it.

uh, where did I say that?

you expecting dogs and firehoses?:D

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by tvanderpoel
Our eventual goal is to generate a large number of signatures, and then draft a well written letter (with attached petitions) to the President and Athletic Director of all the schools in Division 3. In addition, we will be sending out the petition to the media to try and generate negative press about the proposal. If enough press is generated we could have a considerable impact on outcome. Sounds good.

[miker]

as posted on a lax board...anybody have any insight to the references? thoughts after a brief glance - "motivation" behind the proposals, great debate topic...

As I wrote as part of another discussion of this issue below, none of us can understand the faulty information and logic behind the D-3 "reform" recommendations without reading The Game of Life by Bowen and Shulman upon which they are largely based. Then everyone needs to read the refutation by Hal S. Scott, Harvard Law School Professor of International Financial Systems at

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/PIFS/pdfs/scott_glharvspeech.pdf

Professor Scott shows how the data Bowen and Shulman use doesn't even support the conclusions in their book. He also introduces other data that refute other central contentions of the Bowen and Shulman argument against intercollegiate athletics. He shows that Bowen and Shulman screed is intellectually dishonest, but sadly, the D-3 reform committee and presidents seem to have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

As I wrote before, there is a lot wrong with big time intercollegiate athletics, but the Bowen and Shulman approach is not the solution.


http://www.petitiononline.com/NCAAD3/petition.html

[miker]

I also found the entire review by Prof. Scott, Harvard Law School

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/pifs/pdfs/scott_game_of_life.pdf

[Timmah!]

This weekend I went through the list of schools in the petition and cross referenced them with the NCAA Website to sort them into division.

Currently there are:

80 Division 1 Schools
26 Division 2 Schools
55 Division 3 Schools (excluding the affected schools)
4 Canadian Schools
1 English School
1 Penitentiary (Thanks to Mr Dogg)

We are getting a fairly decent spread of schools, and the more non-affected D3 schools, the better.

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by tvanderpoel
We are getting a fairly decent spread of schools, and the more non-affected D3 schools, the better. I think that is the key. Although the having more schools represented certainly can't hurt, I suspect that the D-III membership won't weigh too much the opinions of non-D-III schools.

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by tvanderpoel
John Blauvelt and I have been coordinating the efforts on the distribution of this hockey petition to various media outlets. One of the points brought out on this board, and in an email sent to us this weekend from Johns Hopkins is that the petition must be expanded to specifically incorporate all the affected sports for them to link it on their page. Unfortunately we are not able to make any edits to the current petition. After much discussion we have decided that the only way to address this problem is through writing a second petition which is specifically geared at all of the non-hockey programs affected. This is far from ideal, but is the only way we can see to addressing the concerns of the non-hockey schools. Please take a look at the new petition, and continue to distribute both versions of the petition to anyone and everyone you know. Keep up the good work!!!!

Hockey Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/NCAAD3/petition.html

Non-Hockey Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/D3NCAA/petition.html For one reason or another, that second petition doesn't seem to have reached the correct audience. Do date there are only 12 signatures with only one from one of the non-hockey affected schools.

[Chuck_N]

The total is now pushing 1700. When does this get delivered and will it do any good?

[Chuck_N]

I signed the non hockey one too bad it wasn't worded as one petition right from the begining though.

[kashmunnie73]

...that's an interesting article...the funny thing not mentioned....is how many of the "smart " students...do not grow up into great intellectuals...the geek math genius in my freshamn suite is an actuary...so what. The liberals love to hate Wall Street....the home of all Princeton lax players. The article foreshadows the decline of Williams sports....which was intended by Williams as their 85% winning % was getting embarrassing.....cause Amherst student body has no interest in sports....more like Hampshire every day. BTW...attendance by students and others is way down in Ivy League.....no one cares any more. Quetion: are hockey players in Ivies and Nescac dumber or snarter than 20 years ago? kash

[Ralph Baer]

Some of the comments that people have entered on the petition, although assuredly very well-intentioned, may turn out to be counterproductive because they address the wrong issues from the D-III standpoint.

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by Chuck_N
The total is now pushing 1700. When does this get delivered and will it do any good? It's up to 2000 now. :)

[Red Cloud]

Originally posted by Chuck_N
The total is now pushing 1700. When does this get delivered and will it do any good? I don't know but I recommend shooting for 10-15,000. We have until January to get signatures.

[miker]

http://www.petitiononline.com/NCAAD3/petition.html

[Ralph Baer]

The petition is currently the fourth most active at http://www.petitiononline.com/

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by RPIRED
I don't know but I recommend shooting for 10-15,000. We have until January to get signatures. We do, but I think that the schools need to be receiving letters before that.