Petition against DivIII changes

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by CornwallAce
PS - Lets thank the hockey team for RPI's football team making it so far!!! :rolleyes: You forgot that McCardell changed his stripes on that recently. :) From a post by MikeR a couple of days ago on this thread:

from President McCardell on why Prop 65 is necessary even though it doesn't appear that the schools have an unfair advantage

quote:
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You could argue that because these (eight) schools are mediocre in every other sport they offer that therefore proves that giving out scholarships does not give them a competitive advantage. One could argue that their very mediocrity in every other sport may be a consequence of their devoting their resources (to a Division I sport). I'm not saying one is right or one is wrong.
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Just think how good RPI's football team would have been if anyone paid attention to them. ;)

[RPIBMW]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...does such a scholly to an injured player count against the 18 limitation...or is there some relief loop hole. How is he doing btw....? kash

Yes the scholly to an injured player counts against the 18 limitation. But remember, in this day and time, that it is rare for an athlete to get a 4-year scholly. Now they get a 1-year scholly and it is renewed each year. That leaves some options open for the school if they've made a mistake on a player.

[Chuck_N]

Originally posted by ambersuds
Williams College AD Harry Sheehy voted for Proposition 65-1 at the convention. Thank you, Williams!

Charlie Masenas
Williams '71
RPI '75

Isn't the kashole affiliated with williams somehow?

This is good news we used to go to MCLA games, but that's gone.... so now with this vote we don't have to boycott the f's. Cool.

[Rolevio]

See I have been saying for years, Hull is a coniving *****. Maybe now people will believe me! There was a letter to the editor in the Concordy a few years back from a hockey player who wrote that Hull had basically lies and strung the players along with empty promises all 4 years that he was there.

However thats no reason to hate the school's hockey team just because Hull spends all day in his offer drooling at Hamilton College promotional material.

[Muskieman]

Perhaps this is a mis-interpretation, but my understanding is that Union - in an effort to promote diversity among its student body - offers loans to students residing outside of the USA and such loans do not have to be paid back. If only my mortgage and car loans had such a clause.

That said, I just checked the Union roster as listed on USCHO and found that 12 of its 29 players reside in Canada and the remainder in the USA. Thus, 12 players are given loans - in the disguise of scholarships - to attend Union and play hockey. At least Union is within the 18-scholarship limit, I'll give them that.

Despite being under the limit, I wish to nominate President Hull as the hypocrite of the year. His holy though attitude, especially given that 12 of his school's hockey players are on "scholarship", is sickening.

One can only hope that CC, Clarkson, SLU, and RPI torch the Dutchmen in games played henceforth.

Brian M. Henry
SLU '76

[Ralph Baer]

An article in the Troy Record that attempts to explain why the voting went as it did: Change in philosophy enabled Engineers, others to get due Props (http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10803283&BRD=1170&PAG=461&dept_id=32464&rfi=6)

[DrDemento]

Originally posted by CornwallAce
Last I knew, basket weaving was not being offered at RPI.

If it was I would certainly have taken it in preference to physical chemistry. The entire argument about academics becomes ridicuous. Wonder how many of the hockey players at the 6 Ivy schools woulde get admitted based on academic standards a lone. Better yet, wonder how they would handle the course load at RPI. Juneau and Laing were just two examples (aqnd obviously academically above the norm) but I am sure there are many more.

[kashmunnie73]

...geez...the Bates prez comes off looking stupid...but so do Ralph and Fridgen....insulting and patronizing kids from Minn and D3 hockey players. Nice to see the "fraternity" of D1 hockey was so happy to lie to kids about RPI et al going D3......and all these future RPI Dean's Listers were so easily duped. You want see the money honey glotting...she has her eye on Chuck Schumer's Senate seat. kash

[johnk]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...geez...the Bates prez comes off looking stupid...but so do Ralph and Fridgen....insulting and patronizing kids from Minn and D3 hockey players. Nice to see the "fraternity" of D1 hockey was so happy to lie to kids about RPI et al going D3......and all these future RPI Dean's Listers were so easily duped. You want see the money honey glotting...she has her eye on Chuck Schumer's Senate seat. kash

How are you able to see the keyboard to type this trash, with your head firmly stuck up your ***.

[HighlanderRPI]

Originally posted by CornwallAce
Why did Joe Juneau choose RPI? =)
This was actually in an article link Ralph posted a while back in the thread - he really wanted to study Aeronautical Engineering and RPI had the best program he found. Conveniently, they also had a great hockey program :)

[kashmunnie73]

...geez....Union hires Ned Harkness and recruits the next NHL All-Star team....and pays them accordingly. Union gets attacked...and tucks tail to D3 and Nescac...then Union gets tossed from Nescac..and gets back to D1 hockey...where everyone from sports writers to competitors and their Senior Senator hates them. Geez....what's with Uscho dislike for Nescac? Union should cancel D1 hockey...and go D3...no one likes them in D1. I can hear the RPI coach...whispering in the ear of Minn kids on the tundra...."you know..Union is going D3". kash

[Dutchfan]

Right now I'm embarrassed to be a Union fan. :mad:

Roger Hull has again, not only shot the hockey program in the foot but he's shot the school in the foot as well. Hull might as well send the hockey team back to D-III before he ruins any more player's hockey futures in his quest to be a pristine academic institution where athletes are scoffed at as inferior.

Hull needs to realize that his time is up and get his *** out before he drags everyone else down again. :mad:

[miker]

from the NCAA site, some posters on the Knight forum found this-Roll Call (http://www1.ncaa.org/convention/2004/d3_roll-call.pdf)

Reminder when looking at votes...when 65-1 passed, it became proposal 65.

[TCTornado]

get those torches and pitchforks ready!:D :p

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by MikeR
from the NCAA site, some posters on the Knight forum found this-Roll Call (http://www1.ncaa.org/convention/2004/d3_roll-call.pdf)

Reminder when looking at votes...when 65-1 passed, it became proposal 65. Did each conference have a vote besides each college? That's what it looks like. (That sounds like the Electoral College gving votes for each Representative [college] and each Senator [conference].)

[miker]

Originally posted by Ralph Baer
Did each conference have a vote besides each college? That's what it looks like. (That sounds like the Electoral College gving votes for each Representative [college] and each Senator [conference].)

Each conference eligible received a vote...

Reference Bylaw:
3.02.3.3 Member Conference. A member conference is a group of colleges and/or universities that
conducts competition among its members and determines a conference champion in one or more
sports (in which the NCAA conducts championships or for which it is responsible for providing
playing rules for intercollegiate competition), duly elected to conference membership under the
provisions of this article (see Constitution 3.3.3). A member conference is entitled to all of the privileges
of active members except the right to compete in NCAA championships (see Constitution
3.3.2). Only those conferences that meet specific criteria as competitive and legislative bodies (see
Constitution 3.02.1 and 3.02.2) and minimum standards related to size and division status are permitted
to vote on legislation or other issues before the Association

[Red Cloud]

The Tute rundown...

Fellow affected schools obviously voted yes...

UCAA - Yes
NESCAC - No
NYSWCAA - Did Not Vote (No to 65)

Football Opponents (2003)
Hartwick/SLU - Duh
Utica - Abstained
Coast Guard - Yes
Kings Point - No
Union - No
St. John Fisher - No
St. John's - Yes
Ithaca - Yes
Curry - Yes
Springfield - Yes
WPI - No
Hobart - Yes
Rochester - Yes (No to 65)

Women's Hockey Opponents
MIT - Yes
Wesleyan - No
Southern Maine - Yes
NEC - No
Salve Regina - Yes
Manhattanville - No
Mass-Boston - No
RIT - Yes
Williams - Yes

Local Schools
Russell Sage - Yes
Skidmore - Yes
SUNY Plattsburgh - No
Vassar - Yes
Southern Vermont - Yes

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So WPI tried to sell us out too? That's 2 of 3 football rivalries. :mad:

[CrimsonBlue]

Is it now possible to put this thread in archives?

[Ralph Baer]

FWIW, we predicted the results correctly back in August: http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28557

[unionfan]

Originally posted by Muskieman
Perhaps this is a mis-interpretation, but my understanding is that Union - in an effort to promote diversity among its student body - offers loans to students residing outside of the USA and such loans do not have to be paid back. If only my mortgage and car loans had such a clause.

That said, I just checked the Union roster as listed on USCHO and found that 12 of its 29 players reside in Canada and the remainder in the USA. Thus, 12 players are given loans - in the disguise of scholarships - to attend Union and play hockey. At least Union is within the 18-scholarship limit, I'll give them that.

Despite being under the limit, I wish to nominate President Hull as the hypocrite of the year. His holy though attitude, especially given that 12 of his school's hockey players are on "scholarship", is sickening.

One can only hope that CC, Clarkson, SLU, and RPI torch the Dutchmen in games played henceforth.

Brian M. Henry
SLU '76


Uh, yeah, that's a massive misinterpreation. As I;ve mentioned elsewhere, here's the deal:

Because international students are not US students, they are not eligible for federal Stafford loans. However, at Union the old policy was to provide financial aid grants to compensate for international students inability to access Stafford loans in the amount for which they otherwise would be eligible; Canadians were not considered international for those purposes, however. The "change" was to include them in this cohort. It means that they get grant money instead of loans (assuming they would have needed loans in the first place--this doesn't help students who could afford to pay any way). Since it only replaces US loan amounts, it amounts to between 2k and 5.5k depending on what year the student is, and only applies to students who can demostrate financial need for the loan funds that the grant is intended to replace.



Thus, 12 Union players are not being given scholarships "disguised" as loans to play hockey. They are being given a small amount of grant money to erplace loan funding that they need but are not eigble for because they are not US citizens. They are not treated differently than any other athelete (i.e., Canadiam soccer players get the same del)--and they are only treated differently because they, like other international students, are not eligible for US loans.

If anything, this simply leveled a financial playing field that used to be tipped against the hockey program--because more of its students were Canadian, more of them were not provided with the financial assistance for which they could demonstrate need. Now it merely equal.