View Full Version : Petition against DivIII changes
kashmunnie73
11-19-2003, 09:36 PM
...geez...at this rate...you'll end up with a D3 team playing a D1 schedule...not much fun. Hey...McCardell wants these guys to go to Midd...(full ride and best language schools in the world)...not to Bowling Green. Maybe Ms. Jackson at RPI can pays these guys $40k to shovel her driveway of snow for the season...or drive her to a corporate board meeting...for say...$20k per trip....she'll make it up 10x in stock options. kash
Red Cloud
11-19-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by kashmunnie73
Maybe Ms. Jackson at RPI can pays these guys $40k to shovel her driveway of snow for the season...or drive her to a corporate board meeting...for say...$20k per trip....she'll make it up 10x in stock options. kash I don't know about her, but I'd pay you a good $20 to quit talking out of your ***.
Ralph Baer
11-20-2003, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by vicb
The guy Clarkson lost was to Vermont. But also both Clarkson and RPI lost Tyler Burton to Colgate. As Gate93 wrote, there is no reason to assume that Colgate wouldn't have gotten him anyway especially since he became their first scholarship athlete.
Gate93, thanks for the run down on the PL. Rumors have a way of starting and then spreading, and it is not clear that there is any truth to the rumor of RPI and JHU to the Pl came from. Just when one hears it from several sources, one thinks that there may be some truth. I have to think that it would be an option that RPI would consider in case the Propsoal is passed. I do agree that pulling RPI's sports programs up to DIAA would take a lot of effort. I do remember when RPI's football team had trouble beating Junior Colleges and although they are doing fine now in DIII it is indeed a long way to DIAA.
SteveSliva
11-20-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by ambersuds
I don't know what McCardell's problem is with the status quo. Middlebury's endowment is huge. It is an elite and slightly snobbish old New England institution. The college has its own golf course. The athletic facilities are state of the art. What's broke, McCardell?
The real issue may well be that he'd like Middlebury to play-up, also. But rather then fighting for that, he vindictively goes after a number of schools with less financial clout?
Just try to tell the Middlebury ski teams they need to start competing against only D-3 schools and see what happens... ****, what a hypocrite.
Also, what's different about Union (http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/orgInfo.do?orgID=727)?
Red Cloud
11-20-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by SteveSliva
Also, what's different about Union (http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/orgInfo.do?orgID=727)? No scholarships, even if they wanted them, which I don't believe is the case. They were not among the original 20 or so schools granted waivers in 1982.
SteveSliva
11-20-2003, 10:02 PM
Gotcha.
kashmunnie73
11-20-2003, 10:10 PM
...geez....McCardell is probably just carrying water for the D3 organization as he just happens to be head of it...he's been thinking about retirement... not this penny ante issue. Similiarly, Jackson has been devoting more time to her efforts to get appointed to her 5th corporate directorship...at the NYSE...looking for that Grasso-type money...to complement her $875k per year as highest paid university prez in the USA. She is very busy serving on five boards ...I wonder if she has ever cast a dissenting vote at a board meeting...nah...disssenter to get on 5 boards....that's potentially worth $ millions. kash
Rolevio
11-20-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by RPIRED
No scholarships, even if they wanted them, which I don't believe is the case. They were not among the original 20 or so schools granted waivers in 1982.
Union would have to apply for a waiver to grant scholarships as things stand now, which they have no intention to do at the moment.
Only other school I am aware of that applied for one was Hobart and they were denied. However Union's situation is different than when Hobart applied so it would be anyone's guess if they would be granted the waiver. But don't expect it to see them apply anytime soon.
Red Cloud
11-20-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Rolevio
Union would have to apply for a waiver to grant scholarships as things stand now, which they have no intention to do at the moment. Based on my current awareness, I believe it would normally be turned down unless Union could present justification. The original waiver applied to the 20 odd schools who had that D-I level tradition, the number has dropped down to 8. I'm not aware of any schools that have been able to give scholarship that were not part of the original list of schools.
Hobart, for what it's worth, may not be sticking around the D-I ranks for much longer regardless of whether or not this thing goes through.
Hey Kash, you're starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like... starting to sound like...
kashmunnie73
11-21-2003, 12:12 PM
....does the student newspaper at RPI...wonder if Marathon Oil, Medtronic, Federal Express, AT+T...and soon the NY Stock Exchange...drop nice corporate gifts to RPI? Ms. Jackson serves on these 4..soon to be 5... boards of directors. She makes money...RPI makes money...and she happily signs off on corporate managements compensation packages...even as AT+T shareholders watch the stock go from $100 per share to $13. It's a great game...get in it. kash
Ralph Baer
11-21-2003, 12:20 PM
Does anyone know what were the other DIII schools that used to offer athletic scholarships and don't do so anymore?
Rolevio
11-22-2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by RPIRED
Based on my current awareness, I believe it would normally be turned down unless Union could present justification.
Aye I believe Union would likely be turned down if they applied, however Union would have a much stronger case than Hobart did I believe. Mainly they have had a D1 program for 12 years now to establish themselves. Also the number and proximity of other schools in their own league with waivers (Playing in all sports against SLU, Clarkson and RPI). Possibly also noteworthy is that Union intended to go D1 immediately when the program was revived and would of been D1 by the time of the intial wiver if ot for the Harkness scandal. Then again, being in the same league as the Ivys could also hurt as they dont give scholarships and constitute half the league.
Ah well, its all hypothetical so long as Hull is President. Possibly with the same Board as well, but I don't know enough about their views on the topic.
Got 6, Want More
11-22-2003, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by vicb
The guy Clarkson lost was to Vermont.
The same recruit Spaceman mentioned had narrowed it down to SLU, Clarkson and BGSU and chose BGSU because of the scholarship issue as he was only assured 3 years if he enrolled in 2005. The kid is apparently a very good player but also a good student with 1200 something on his SAT's. Not to knock BSSU, but what a waste for a student of this caliber to not have the opportunity to go to school at SLU or CCT. Moreover, the kids father suffered from a stroke and both North Country schools are a short drive from Ottawa while BGSU is a haul. Well done Mr. McCardell...just what I am sure you wanted to achieve...denying good students who happen to be good athletes the chance to play hockey at a school of their chosing.
Regarding the pre-announcement of whether to move up or not, MikeR presents the other side of it. I also agree that SLU is making a mistake by saying we will not consider all of our options should this proposal pass. I think the announcement they should make is that they will sue the socks off of the NCAA if it does pass and maybe get some D-3 members to vote against the proposal solely on the basis of not wanting to deal with litigation.
Gate93, I agree that moving an institution from D-3 to D-1 is a tough move regardless of whether it is the PL or another league. This is a big reason SLU won't do it because they would be turning all the other teams upside down just for ice hockey. I personally believe that is a fair price to pay but I like hockey a bit more than all other sports.:D IMHO, the only option is for the 7 Northeast schools impacted by this proposal to form their own D-2 league...maybe even CC would want to join?
No easy answers. RPIRED, good one with the broker record...that made me laugh.
Originally posted by Got 6, Want More
I also agree that SLU is making a mistake by saying we will not consider all of our options should this proposal pass. I think the announcement they should make is that they will sue the socks off of the NCAA if it does pass and maybe get some D-3 members to vote against the proposal solely on the basis of not wanting to deal with litigation.
I agree and I hope McCardell and the dopey 12 or what number it is that makes up the Presidents Council is front and center in any suit filed.
miker
11-24-2003, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Ralph Baer
Does anyone know what were the other DIII schools that used to offer athletic scholarships and don't do so anymore?
Ralph,
I have not found any listing of the original schools that took advantage of the waiver. I'll keep looking...
Did find a historical timeline of the "multi-divisional" status:
Link Here (http://www1.ncaa.org/eprise/main/administrator/Historical_Outline.pdf)
Another link to Q&A for ADs on proposed legislation (http://www1.ncaa.org/eprise/main/administrator/DIII_Proposal_Question_and_Answer.pdf)
Also, there is an amendment up for review on the January meeting (proposal 65-1]
What does this amendment accomplish?
This amendment would allow the eight institutions currently offering athletically related financial aid in a Division I sport to continue that practice, but would preclude any other Division III institution that qulaifies for the 1983 waiver from doing so.
Ralph Baer
11-24-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by MikeR
Also, there is an amendment up for review on the January meeting (proposal 65-1] Oh, that is he reason that RPIRED has been mentioning #65 recently.
Red Cloud
11-24-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Ralph Baer
Oh, that is he reason that RPIRED has been mentioning #65 recently. Right - the proposal is now Proposal 65, the amendment is Proposal 65-1.
miker
11-25-2003, 03:13 PM
Ralph -your answer is probably here. Warning it takes a while for these to load. NCAA news archives (http://www.ncaa.org/news/archive.html)
I did browse through a few of these (1982, 1983) and the NCAA has been discussing the split of D3 for at least 20 years!:eek:
Ralph Baer
11-25-2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by MikeR
Ralph -your answer is probably here. Warning it takes a while for these to load. NCAA news archives (http://www.ncaa.org/news/archive.html) Thanks for the warning. I'll check next week when I am back at work -- if I remember. :)
Ralph Baer
11-28-2003, 05:45 PM
Article in the Troy Record about the January meeting http://www.troyrecord.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10580222&BRD=1170&PAG=461 . Has anyone heard of The National Student Advisory Committee? Anyway, they seem to be on our side. :)
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