Petition against DivIII changes

[miker]

Originally posted by Crease_Monkey
Statements like this appear jealous, in my opinion:



Just curious, where did you get these statements?

[Ralph Baer]

Mike. He is disagreeing with some statements from a post in this thread from 08-20-2003 04:26 PM (assuming that you are on Eastern time).

[miker]

Thanks Ralph! Do you have the memory of an elephant?:)

Well, the way the affected schools have been effective in getting the word out, this may be the last bit of news we receive until the vote. I hope to have something good to talk about when the Satellite game is played.

NCAA Brand editorial....Mellon Group (http://www.ncaa.org/news/2003/20031110/editorial/4023n31.html)

Official NCAA release..support reforms...missing members of the PC (http://www.ncaa.org/news/2003/20031110/active/4023n02.html)

[Ralph Baer]

Mike,

Actually, it sounded vaguely familiar, and I used the Search function of VB to find the message when I got confused myself as to what Crease_Monkey was saying and what he was quoting.

[kashmunnie73]

...geez...I think I just overhead CNBC report that Ms. Jackson is the highest paid of all private university presdents!!!....can that be right....she was higher than the woman at UPenn. What's the all about? That money could balance out the non-athlete scholarships at RPI...just like at Middlebury. kash

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...geez...I think I just overhead CNBC report that Ms. Jackson is the highest paid of all private university presdents!!!....can that be right....she was higher than the woman at UPenn. What's the all about? That money could balance out the non-athlete scholarships at RPI...just like at Middlebury. kash ;) Kash, it's like this. Having a D-I sport at a University has an effect not only on other sports there, but on many other aspects of the University, and this includes the President's salary. Just don't tell McCardell because he'll have a fit. ;)

[fr joe]

Originally posted by Ralph Baer
;) Kash, it's like this. Having a D-I sport at a University has an effect not only on other sports there, but on many other aspects of the University, and this includes the President's salary. Just don't tell McCardell because he'll have a fit. ;)

Why do we have to explain compensation matters to someone who's handle is kashmunnie? :D ;) The effects of D1 hockey reach far and wide... college presidents salaries, lunar eclipses...you'd be surprised! ;) No wonder she's such a big fan of D1 hockey at RPI. ;) :D

[kashmunnie73]

...geez...you RPI guys didn't ask or , if so, didn't get any answers about the D3 vote to emasculate the 4 D1( D3 overall) hockey teams. kash

[Red Cloud]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...geez...you RPI guys didn't ask or , if so, didn't get any answers about the D3 vote to emasculate the 4 D1( D3 overall) hockey teams. kash I don't hold coaches responsible for the stupidity of their presidents.

[Ralph Baer]

The Petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/NCAAD3/petition.html) has passed 8000 signatures. Unless signing picks up, it doesn't look too good for 10,000.

[Crease_Monkey]

I apologize for the vague quote. It came from PSUChampsomethingorother a number of posts back. I was trying to read the entire thread :eek: before posting an answer or opinion. When I went by the quotes I used, I just cut and waited to paste them later. I'll try to give you the exact reference later, but if you want to know quicker, search on PSUChampsomehtingorother...I can't remember his/her whole name.

[miker]

No problem Crease, I quit being lazy and used the search function eventually (before my elephant comment to Ralph). I'm impressed you read the whole thread:cool:

Fortunately for you the other thread disappeared!

Noticed a small increase in signatures with fans from the WCHA, and a couple from the CCHA.

Edit:
JHU lacrosse: Multidivisional miscreants? (http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?pnpID=574&NewsID=503332&CategoryID=8013&show=localnews&om=4)

[GOSTATE18]

what the hell does sticky mean? why does it say that in the subject line?

[Patman]

Originally posted by GOSTATE18
what the hell does sticky mean? why does it say that in the subject line?

it means that its stuck to the top. I'm sure Admin could change the words to "Important" or something like that

[Ralph Baer]

Mike,

It looks like that article that you linked didn't understand what "starting in 2008" means.

Patman,

Sadly to those impacted by this, "important" isn't a strong enough word.

(Did I really use "impact" as a verb? :eek: )

[joecct77]

From Charlie Shub over on Hockey-L

the FACULTY ATHLETICS REPRESENTATIVES ASSOCIATION Preliminary Report of the 2003-04 Division III Legislative Review Committee recommends stances by Faculty Athletics Representatives in advising their institutions on how to vote on legislation at the NCAA convention.

The full recommendations can be found at http://www.elon.edu/ncaafara/LRC DIIIREPORT2003-04.htm

of interest is the following excerpt:

No. 2-69 DIVISION III MEMBERSHIP- MULTIDIVISION CLASSIFICATION - AWARDING OF ATHLETICS AID

Intent: To eliminate the waiver that permits a Division III institution that conducted a sport classified in Division I in 1982-83 to award athletically related financial aid in that sport, as well as a sport for the opposite gender, later reclassified to Division I.

Advantages: The prohibition against athletics aid is the defining philosophical tenet of Division III. It should apply consistently to all Division III members.

Disadvantages: Less than 2% of current Division III member institutions and roughly 250 participating student athletes operate under this waiver. These institutions have developed identities through the success of their Division I sport that greatly impact recruitment among the general student population as well as alumni relations and gift-giving. Elimination of this waiver may create an undue burden on these member institutions.

Recommendation: Oppose Eliminating the waiver will impose a burden on the affected institutions in terms of potential damage to their institutional identities, while no significant benefit will accrue to other membership institutions.

[Ralph Baer]

Try this as the link http://www.elon.edu/ncaafara/LRC%20DIIIREPORT2003-04.htm

[Crease_Monkey]

MikeR;

Here it is.

Originally posted by PSUChamps2001
A. Elmira- If either or all these schools join the ECAC-West Conference if will give the ECAC-West a chance to gain an auto-bid into the NCAA's. Thus giving Elmira an extra recruiting tool, which will bring in (hopefully) better players, which could lead to more wins, which could lead to National Titles, which could lead to more fans, which leads to more $$$.

B. Manhattanville- See A, but change Elmira to Manhattanville.

C. RIT- See A but change Elmira to RIT

D. Utica- See A but change Elmira to Utica

E. Hobart- See A, but change Elmira to Hobart (and add "new rink" with more$$$$.

F. Neumann- see A, but change Elmira to Neumann.

G. Plattsburgh- Use to have games against SLU, RPI, Clarkson. Being only an hour away could draw in some big numbers of fans...making more $$$$.

H. Potsdam- The Bears have a new coach, and will be able to use games against Clarkson-SLU as recruiting tools. What team wouldn’t want to play at a rink like Cheel? (Minus Middlebury and Norwich)

I. Oswego- Could be in the same conference as SLU-Clarkson-RPI. Great recruiting tool.

J. Anyone who ends up playing any of these teams...

K...Do I have to go on?

As I stated in the DIII thread, as much as Id like to say "let them stay" because of tradition, this is an all or nothing vote. You can not let hockey stay up at these 3-4 schools named and offer scholarships....and not let other schools athletic teams in other sports stay up. Plus lets face it, take away all the paid players at these schools and you have pretty much an above average to decent DIII school. Without the Willie Mitchells and the half dozen other paid players, Clarkson would be a competitive D-III team, but probably wouldn't have been able to stand still on water against top D-I schools....they had a hard enough time doing that with them.... The ECAC hasn't proved too much over the past years there are a competitive league, let alone on a consistent basis....such the E-Z AC stigma. If I had a choice I would yes, let them stay in D-I just because I fear all the $%itching and whining that will come once the decision is made. I know not all D-I posters out there feel D-III is inferior to the all mighty D-I, but if this thing does go through, and I hope it does not...I hope all the fans at Clarkson, SLU, RPI where ever...will give D-III a chance. You never know, you might enjoy it. It might be a little different watching games with teams who are at school to go to school and play hockey because they love to, than at a school where they get paid to.

Another thing was brought up was the $$$ teams like SLU and Clarkson will loose....well think of it this way, you will be saving all that scholarship money.


PSU brings up money, which is the main reason this is a problem in the first place. "The emphasis should be on education, not money and sports." So, already PSU is talking out of his sss. He mentions money ($ or $$ or $$$ or $$$$) five times just looking at the dollars signs.

It all comes down to PSU wanting his/her school to be able to play at St. Lawrence or Clarkson or wherever. This is a self serving proposal.

"Try D-III, you might like it." PSU has completely missed the point. D-III is great, but Clarkson has been playing it's opponents for over 3/4 of a century and utilizing scholarships for a significant period of this time. Not to mention they were grandfathered back in the 80's.

If this were just in the past ten years, I can see a reason to alter the situation. This situation has existed longer than the NCAA has existed.

PSU...:rolleyes:

[Patman]

Originally posted by Ralph Baer
Mike,

It looks like that article that you linked didn't understand what "starting in 2008" means.

Patman,

Sadly to those impacted by this, "important" isn't a strong enough word.

(Did I really use "impact" as a verb? :eek: )

I'm just talking from an aspect of vBulliten as I've seen it on other boards... I'm sure words like "Panic" could be substituted... I'm just telling him why it says "sticky" :)

[Ralph Baer]

I'll buy "panic". :D