Petition against DivIII changes

[WordsSayNothing]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...geez...these guys say under admissions.....non-Catholics admitted only if openings remain after all Catholics admiitted....now that's snobby. kash

Well, to be fair, they *are* a Catholic high school. Maybe other Catholic high schools don't follow this practice, but if they're that insistent on being able to do the Catholic religion thing in school, it helps to have ~95% of the students actually within the religion. At least, that's what I think. I never went to Catholic high school, so I have no idea how that works, really.

[HighlanderRPI]

A reporter from The Minneapolis Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/) contated me in regards to the petition. They are apparently doing a story on the proposed reforms and asked for my comments. Keep an eye on their website - I would expect a story is forthcoming in the near future.

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by HighlanderRPI
A reporter from The Minneapolis Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/) contated me in regards to the petition. They are apparently doing a story on the proposed reforms and asked for my comments. Keep an eye on their website - I would expect a story is forthcoming in the near future. Hopefully, they will publish the link in whatever they write. The number of signatures per day has been going way down recently.

[Got 6, Want More]

Phew!! Thank God the RPI alums got cheap this year, or I would have been eating hay!!!

Still, on a per student basis Middlebury is one of the richest schools out there and that is really the point here!! The issue should not be how to spend the money but how much money you have to spend that is giving an unfair advantage to certain D-3 schools.

In the infamous words of Bluto Blutarski: "McCardell DEAD!!!!!"


Originally posted by MikeR
Kash -here's some endowment values of the top colleges....Middlebury is #74 (2003) (you make also like to see where some other D3 schools are ranked...RIT etc)

Slush fund (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2003/digest02/tables/PDF/table358.pdf)

In response to your questions regarding McCardell...he may only be the figurehead of D3, but doesn't an organization take on the leader's beliefs or "what is important to the future" ideals? whether in business or academia..

Also reference some of his comments regarding this portion of the proposal. He's the white knight...in his eyes.:rolleyes:

[Ralph Baer]

Article on Brand's speech from the RPI student newspaper: http://www.poly.rpi.edu/article_view.php3?view=2424&part=1

[engineerhockeyfan]

Originally posted by Ralph Baer
Article on Brand's speech from the RPI student newspaper: http://www.poly.rpi.edu/article_view.php3?view=2424&part=1

Did I read the last sentence correctly? Did he say that he thought that the proposal should be defeated? Did he also say that he thought that it would be?
Since this thread began it was at least insinuated that Brand was for the proposal. Now his own words contradict that.
Is anyone in D-111 land listening to the head of the NCAA?

[Ralph Baer]

I think that the Poly article overstated that Brand said it would be defeated. However, Brand's remarks did indicate that he was against the proposal -- the opposite of what we surmised earlier. Perhaps he was juat playing to the audience.

It is hard to believe that anyone who stated that he waited overnight for tickets (it was for individual games back then) would want to destroy competitive RPI hockey.

[miker]

Well, I went and subscribed to the WDT for one story on the reform proposals. Maybe I shouldn't have, as I was feeling better about this whole thing.

I gathered a few highlights

1. The only way the proposal can be brought up for another vote is if a member of the winning side requests one. Is this true? Otherwise, the proposal goes to the full member vote.

2. The affected schools strategy now is to wait until the President's council contacts them. There has been some communication with the council members that the presidents know. They are sending a letter to the President's and Management Council soon.

3. Recruiting effects - none known specifically at this time, but...this being the peak recruiting month - Coach Marsh stated that everyone is talking about it. Coach Roll stated that kids have brought it up.

4. If this passes -Clarkson will analyze every option including moving up to D2, SLU will remain D3.

5. Trevor Edwards, Clarkson forward has been taking an active role organizing other student-athletes. Quoted regarding the ability to attract student-athletes without scholarhsips, and the jock stereotype.

Edit:

6. McCardell quotes
"This discussion really needs to be about the future and not the past," McCardell said. "This isn't about 1982. It's about 2022. It's about what Division III ought to look like going forward."
and...
"Those financial aid dollars could be redeployed to students who needed them, rather than to students who slap a puck,"

"Pompous arse", stated MikeR :mad:

7. The ECAC could be a key contributor to defeat this proposal, as its membership includes 186 D3 institutions. They have a fall conference in 2 weeks, where this issue will be addressed by the commissioner. Also, they have a meeting planned with the NCAA staff, Management Council, and the affected schools.

[kashmunnie73]

...about guys who can "slap the puck?"......I assume you made that up.....what would all the recruits at Midd think of his disparaging opinion?......please confirm. thx, kash

[Ralph Baer]

Mike,

What is the WDT?


Message from RPI Alumni Coordinator Pete Pedone on the RPI Sports list:

At their Sept. 20 Board meeting, the Rensselaer Alumni Association (RAA), led by RAA President Dennis W. Powers ’63, unanimously passed a resolution in opposition to the NCAA President’s Council’s proposal to eliminate the awarding of athletics aid by Division III member institutions to athletes participating in Division I sports.

To view the resolution, visit http://www.alumni.rpi.edu/aa/statement.html

Peter

[vicb]

Originally posted by Ralph Baer
Mike,

What is the WDT?




WDT = Watertown Dailey Times Newspaper

[Ralph Baer]

Thanks Vic. I did figure it out later myself when I noticed that Mike had posted the same message on the Clarkson message board.

[miker]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...about guys who can "slap the puck?"......I assume you made that up.....what would all the recruits at Midd think of his disparaging opinion?......please confirm. thx, kash

No, I didn't make that up. Those quotes are from his mouth alone, as quoted by the Watertown Daily Times

[kashmunnie73]

...geez...if that's true....it's a great story....the hypocritical Prez of oh-so politically correct Middleberries....disparaging a whole group of male and female athletes who spent their time "slapping a puck around". Geez...we know what racism, ageism. lookism are...but what do you call prejudice against athletes? Get this posted on D3 thread and you will fing new support fotr your petition. kash

[TimU]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...about guys who can "slap the puck?"......I assume you made that up.....what would all the recruits at Midd think of his disparaging opinion?......please confirm. thx, kash

This guy assumes two things: if you're a scholarship athlete you're an idiot, contributing nothing to the school academically and taking away a spot from a truly deserving student; and, if you're a scholarship athlete you don't need any financial assistance. He figures he can either give money to kids who are good hockey players, OR he can give it to kids who are qualified students in need of financial aid.

He fails to recognize that the awarding of scholarships in and of itself has absolutely NOTHING to do with a school's admissions policies or any particular student's means. You can admit idiots to play hockey and give money to rich kids within the Division 3 rules. It may be that a scholarship athlete takes up a spot that might otherwise go to a needy, academically qualified non-athlete. But it's also possible that under the Division 3 system, a needy, academically qualified athlete would be steered away from Division 3 schools for financial reasons, and his spot could be taken by a wealthy, less qualified non-athlete who could afford any school he chose. It's not nearly as black-and-white as he likes to make it sound.

[kashmunnie73]

....i'm not sure I believe he would say something so "ignorant". Let's see.....how would he characterize D1 basketball players? kash

[miker]

He was quoted as saying those things in the following context, excerpt from article ("Edwards" is Trevor Edwards, senior Center on the Knights team)
Another issue Edwards and other athletes will have to tackle is the jock stereotype, the assumption that if someone is at a school on an athletic scholarship that they may not be serious students. Some may say that stereotype exists at the highest levels.
"Those financial aid dollars could be redeployed to students who needed them, rather than to students who slap a puck," McCardell said.
Edwards, not surprisingly, doesn't share the view of the chairman of the Presidents Council.
"I would ask them to look at the graduation rates and the (grade-point averages) compared to the other students at the school," Edwards said. "We are held to more stringent standards than other students. We are constantly being watched and we take (school) very seriously. The student-athlete experience is almost more valuable than just being a normal student. You have to manage your time better and be much more efficient in what you do. I think that provides a much better background for you in the future."


Article link (http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/editorial/20030921/10396.asp)

[kashmunnie73]

.....I could pull up article without subscribing....do so if you can. You guys should post this ar D# thread...it will start a firestorm of anti-McCardell feeling. Geez...I wonder how he feels about Canadian hockey players in particular....and the no academic standards in D3. kash

[miker]

ask him:)

mccardel@panther.middlebury.edu

[miker]

Article link - requires sign-in (http://www.middleburycampus.com/news/468451.html)

Excerpt:

Under the proposal, redshirting would be eliminated, playing seasons would be curtailed, institutions would be required to file comprehensive financial aid reports for athletes versus non-athletes, and Division III schools that "play up" in one or two Division I sports would no longer be able to offer athletic scholarships in those sports. The last article has proven to be the most contentious, as schools like Johns Hopkins with its storied Division I lacrosse program and hockey powerhouse Colorado College have launched a vociferous campaign to maintain their Division I scholarships. "If you believe in the philosophy of Division III, then no Division III institution should give financial aid based on athletic performance," said Middlebury Athletic Director Russ Reilly. "To me it is a philosophical argument. You are either Division III or you're not."

The fierce debates have prompted criticism of Middlebury and the rest of the NESCAC schools for their strong pro-reform positions. "I think there is a lot of discrepancy between NESCAC and Division III," said Connolly. "Right now we are playing under more stringent rules in NESCAC than in the rest of the Division." The majority of proposed legislation would not affect Middlebury because NESCAC schools have long voluntarily played under the guidelines suggested by the Presidents Council.
poor Middlebury College, need a shoulder?

NESCAC plays shorter schedules and prohibits non-traditional scheduling which keeps teams playing all year round instead of the normal one season. No NESCAC school maintains a Division I team. Such strict controls have led the conference to be labeled as elitist. "I think because NESCAC schools have far more restrictive rules and still have the success we've had we probably are perceived as elitist," said Reilly. "We are perceived by some as NESCAC trying to bring the rest of Division III down (or up) to NESCAC."