Petition against DivIII changes

[miker]

Ralph - my thoughts exactly, I started to write the same thing, then lost the motivation.
Wonder when the next time we'll hear any news regarding the proposal? Is it the affected 7's plan to do most of the work behind closed doors? Do you think that is an effective method?

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by MikeR
Ralph - my thoughts exactly, I started to write the same thing, then lost the motivation.
Wonder when the next time we'll hear any news regarding the proposal? Is it the affected 7's plan to do most of the work behind closed doors? Do you think that is an effective method? good questions. I do think taht most will be done behind closed doors. Effective? I don't know.

[Ralph Baer]

Signature #7219 from someone named Mac:
The 15 college presidents on the Council, and for that matter all of the 400 presidents in Division III, better take a good look at their preferential financial aid packaging, or backdoor athletic scholarships, now being given to their Division III athletes. Almost all, if not all, DIII colleges give large "need based" financial aid grants to their athletes, far in excess of what the remaining student population receives. On some campuses, 25% or more of their financial aid budgets are going to support DIII athletes even though these students represent only 5% of the students on aid. Backdoor athletic scholarships are a norm in DIII sports. For those on the Council who think their athletes are receiving "pure" financial aid, you don't know what is going on at your campus. You better take a good look because this would be my first line of fire for a lawsuit if this absurd proposal were allowed to move forward. Although I don't know that this is a true statement, it definitely wouldn't surprise me. IMO, this is less in line with "the Div-III philosophy" than legitimate athletic scholarships given to students playing on D-I teams..

[kashmunnie73]

...I assume you guys have seen and discussed the article about how to overcome proposal....it's some where on recent page there. kash

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...I assume you guys have seen and discussed the article about how to overcome proposal....it's some where on recent page there. kash Yes, I ahve read it. It raises good points like not revealing your hand, but that doesn't stop us from talking about it.

[Red Cloud]

Originally posted by Ralph Baer
Signature #7219 from someone named Mac:
Although I don't know that this is a true statement, it definitely wouldn't surprise me. IMO, this is less in line with "the Div-III philosophy" than legitimate athletic scholarships given to students playing on D-I teams.. 46% of statistics are just made up. 83% of people know this. :D

[Ralph Baer]

NCAA President Myles Brand to Speak at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Sept. 19
Rensselaer Alumnus to Discuss Ethics and Academics in College Sports


Troy, N.Y.Myles Brand, president of the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) and a Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute alumnus, will deliver a lecture on "The Ethical and Academic Challenges of College Sports" on Friday, Sept. 19 at 4 p.m. on the Rensselaer campus.

The event, which will be held in room 3303 of Rensselaer's Russell Sage Laboratory building, is free and open to the public.

In 2003, Brand was named president of the National Collegiate Athletic Association. Prior to joining the NCAA, Brand served as president of Indiana University (IU). He is credited with guiding IU toward a balance between teaching and research that stood out among its peer schools. A former chair of the American Association of Universities, he sparked media attention and healthy national debate about the role of athletics in higher education during his tenure at IU.

In a speech earlier this year at the National Press Club, Brand said that "intercollegiate athletics can be a vital force in America's culture, exemplifying the positive spirit and values of our way of life," but he also expressed his strong belief "that academics must come first."

With degrees in philosophy from Rensselaer ('64) and the University of Rochester ('67), Brand entered academia as a professor, gradually moving his role to administrator. In addition to serving as president of IU, Brand held the position of chair of philosophy at the University of Illinois-Chicago, elevating the department's rank to among the top 10 in the nation. He then served as dean of arts and sciences at the University of Arizona, provost and vice president for academic affairs at Ohio State University, and president of the University of Oregon.

Brand also will join Rensselaer President Shirley Ann Jackson for an Alumni Appreciation Ceremony at half-time of the Rensselaer vs. Coast Guard football game on Saturday, Sept. 20. The game is scheduled to begin at 1:00 p.m. on '86 Field.

Brand's lecture is the first in the Humanities@Rensselaer lectures for 2003-2004, sponsored by Rensselaer's School of Humanities and Social Sciences.

-end-

NOTE: Parking for the media is available in the southwest corner of the North Lot off of Sage Ave. on the Rensselaer campus. For a map of campus and/or directions to North Lot and the Russell Sage Laboratory building, please contact Caroline Jenkins at 276-6542 or jenkic@rpi.edu.

I add that WRPI will broadcast it, both over the air and on the web.

[Ralph Baer]

Albany T-U article about Brand's speech later today: http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=171299&category=SPORTS&newsdate=9/19/2003

[Chuck_N]

Petition Link (http://www.petitiononline.com/NCAAD3/petition.html)

[kashmunnie73]

eom

[Muskieman]

Per an article in the Albany Times Union newspaper, this is what Myles Brand had to say, which sounds good:

RPI gets boost on key issue
NCAA's Brand, Class of 1964, favors men's hockey scholarships

By MARK SINGELAIS, Staff writer
First published: Saturday, September 20, 2003

TROY -- NCAA president Myles Brand said that as an RPI student in the early 1960s, he used to wait in line overnight for hockey tickets. All these years later, Brand is still showing support for the Engineers.

Brand said Friday that there's a "better than even" chance of defeating an NCAA Division III proposal that would result in the RPI men's hockey team being stripped of all 18 of its scholarships starting with the 2008-09 season.

"I think there's a good opportunity, better than even, that with the hard work of (RPI) president (Shirley Ann) Jackson, working with the other university presidents, that (the proposal) can be changed," Brand said.

The proposed legislation would remove an exemption that allows RPI and seven other Division III schools to give out scholarships in selected Division I sports.

The rest of the 424 schools in Division III are prohibited from giving out scholarships.

RPI plays at the Division III level in 22 men's and women's sports. The exception is men's hockey, the school's flagship team, which won Division I national titles in 1954 and 1985.

Brand, who graduated from RPI in 1964 with a philosophy degree, spoke of the ethical and academic challenges of college sports Friday at RPI's Sage Labs. A near-capacity crowd of about 300 attended.

Brand came down solidly on his alma mater's side on the scholarship issue.

"Fine institutions like Rensselaer and Johns Hopkins, which is also affected, are legitimately asking why the (rule) change must occur, since currently nothing is broken," Brand said. "I understand that the Rensselaer community, under the strong leadership of president Jackson, is making every effort to inform the voting (Division III) presidents of the wisdom of retaining the current exemption (for the eight schools)."

These schools are exempt because they had their Division I programs in place before the prohibition on scholarships was enacted in 1983.

Brand plans to offer RPI some guidance leading up to the Jan. 9-13 convention in Nashville, Tenn., where representatives from all Division III institutions are scheduled to vote on the proposal. It would pass with a simple majority.

"The NCAA and I personally will help Rensselaer to work its way though this somewhat complex procedural set of issues to make sure they have every opportunity to make their case and succeed," said Brand, who was to be inducted into RPI's Alumni Hall of Fame Friday night.

The Division III Presidents Council, which is sponsoring the proposal as part of a broad reform package, will meet again Oct. 30. It's possible the council could withdraw the proposal before the convention in Nashville.

Brand doesn't have a vote on the proposed rule, which is part of a broad reform package sponsored by the Division III Presidents Council. He also declined to say whether he would lobby on RPI's behalf to the other Division III schools.

RPI officials have argued that lifting the exemption would make it harder for RPI hockey to succeed in Division I against teams that offer scholarships.

They also claim it would hurt the school because the tradition-laden hockey program galvanizes the student body and brings RPI positive publicity.

The other seven schools that would be affected are: Clarkson (men's and women's ice hockey); St. Lawrence (men's and women's ice hockey); Hartwick (women's water polo); Oneonta State (men's soccer); Colorado College (men's hockey and women's soccer); Johns Hopkins (men's and women's lacrosse); and Rutgers-Newark (men's volleyball). Both Clarkson and St. Lawrence also play men's hockey in the ECAC.

Middlebury College president John McCardell, chairman of the Division III Presidents Council, said last month that it doesn't seem fair that only those eight schools have the "special privilege" of awarding scholarships.

But Jackson insisted Friday that awarding scholarships hasn't compromised RPI's integrity.

"We certainly think we have a strong case, but we're also working to inform the other Division III presidents," she said.


Brian
SLU '76

[Got 6, Want More]

You know what else sounds good? Taking Middlebury's "King of Hypocrisy" President McCardell outside, tethering him to a tree and lashing him with a wet noodle until the snow flies and he looks like a giant macaroni salad.

It is hardly fair Middlebury has endowment funds coming out their ***** either pal. It is, in fact, fair that these schools give scholarships because they compete in a different league AND of the exemption that was granted by this jack*****es predecessors. Does anyone know the budget for Middlebury's athletics department. If it is not more than every single school currently playing up I will eat hay for the Winter season.

[kashmunnie73]

the high ratio of athletes and big endowmnets will allow NESCAC hockey to compete better for younger players( vs the over-aged juniors playing for Norwich, NEC etc) and even for hockey crazed regular students if they can effect a downgrade of ECAC-D1...especailly SLU, CU, CC, and Colgate. With 40% students playing a varsity sport...the ratio test of "athletes" on academic scholarships vs overall student body is least onerous on NESCAC than any other conference in USA..even the Ivy League...just based on % playing varsity sport. But is MacCardell the driver of this issue or just happens to be head of D3 NCAA prez? kash

[miker]

Kash -here's some endowment values of the top colleges....Middlebury is #74 (2003) (you make also like to see where some other D3 schools are ranked...RIT etc)

Slush fund (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2003/digest02/tables/PDF/table358.pdf)

In response to your questions regarding McCardell...he may only be the figurehead of D3, but doesn't an organization take on the leader's beliefs or "what is important to the future" ideals? whether in business or academia..

Also reference some of his comments regarding this portion of the proposal. He's the white knight...in his eyes.:rolleyes:

[kashmunnie73]

...not hockey related...but I had no idea that Wash Univ in St Louis was that rich...also Welllesley, Emory, Richmond and URochester. Middlebury and many NESCAC pretty wealthy on per student basis....lead by Williams...historically all male college...all those women from Midd and Colby didn't give much historically. kash

[miker]

Originally posted by kashmunnie73
...not hockey related...but I had no idea that Wash Univ in St Louis was that rich...also Welllesley, Emory, Richmond and URochester. Middlebury and many NESCAC pretty wealthy on per student basis....lead by Williams...historically all male college...all those women from Midd and Colby didn't give much historically. kash

That explains the reason quite a few NESCAC schools made this list, as well as Washington U :D

Snob Schools (http://www.benet.org/teachers/agerdes/College_Recommedations/Ruggs/Snob_Schools/snob_schools.html)


I assume the NESCAC presidents are succeeding to get listed with the Ivies....maybe they want to get CC off the same list;)

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by MikeR
Snob Schools (http://www.benet.org/teachers/agerdes/College_Recommedations/Ruggs/Snob_Schools/snob_schools.html)
It's interesting that the only two Ivies that didn't make the list, Columbia and Penn, are the only two that don't have hockey teams. I wonder if there is a connection. :)

[Ralph Baer]

Schenectady Gazette article about Brand's speech: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~markhn/hockey/dg.030920.html .

Troy Record article on the same topic: http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~markhn/hockey/record/030920.html

The Albany T-U article has already been posted.

[miker]

Has anyone read the book, "Reclaiming the Game"?

[kashmunnie73]

...geez...these guys say under admissions.....non-Catholics admitted only if openings remain after all Catholics admiitted....now that's snobby. kash