What The Holy Hell Is Going On?

[Todd Patten]

Here's what's going through my feeble mind lately...

Why is it that we've turned to "selective" bombing in the last decade or so? In the past, we made no distinction between our enemies and the "innocent" civilians. ****, in WWII we bombed cities, fields, islands, churches, hospitals, veterans halls, dogs, cats, and anything else that moved. It may not have been "fair" but it sure did do the job.

I understand that the United States and it's allies want to show that we are compasionate and only want to get the bad guys, but the bad guys are hiding in the mosques that we refuse to target, in the cities we refuse to target and the villiages we refuse to target. The only way that we are going to win this ****ed thing is to bomb whereever they are, regardless of the consequences.

The other thing that's been eating at me is the declarations from the Muslim world that this is a war against Muslims. This perspective is even coming from the citizens of the arab countries that are in "support" of the US cause. They simply don't get it. Because of that, maybe we should stand up and say -- "You're right, it is a war against Islam and we're going to win it. If you guys are f^cked up enough that you will put your lives on the line because you think the United States symbolizes all that Islam isn't, then so be it. We have two different beliefs. One that champions freedom, the other denouncing it. Let's get it on now."

I'm tired of Tippy-Toeing around these guys. Who cares about Ramadan? We had better continue the fighting through the Islamic holiday. We have to stop looking so ****ed weak. It's time to put the hammer down.

Oh yeah -- another thing. I know this is a stretch. If the Taliban and Bin LAden are hiding in these huge, elaborate caves, can't we find most of the openings and bomb the hell out of them? Let them die stuck in the caves. It's quite fitting. I know that it would be all but impossible to find all the openings, but what the heck. Why not try?

[phb]

Totally agree.

At this point I don't care about all the "mistakes" over the last thousand years that have gotten us to this point. I'm no fan of war--but if you're going to wage war, do it. Our enemies don't care who they kill or by what means. Collectively, we need a streak of "nasty."

And I'd love to have just one government official come out and admit that just maybe Islam is targeting the western world. Because it certainly seems to me--from the complete lack of support from the so-called moderates; the lack of outcry over these terroist acts in the Muslim world--that's exactly what's going on to at least some degree.

Yes, Ramadan is a loaded cannon, but so what. The beasts that want to kill us will find other ways to stir the populace up. To slow down the campaign...to wage it at any point other than full-bore, is continued appeasement.

Choose battles carefully--don't pick fights over small matters. But once you're in a fight, win it decisively.

[The Sicatoka]

About Ramadan:

So, if the US stops during that period we are assured that no terrorist acts will occur during any other religion's festivals? Right?

None during:
Hanukkah?
Christmas?
Lent?
Easter?
Yom Kippur?
Rosh Hashanah?
[insert other holy days celebrated by Americans here]?

[Bobo]

How much you wanna bet the Taliban and the Northern Alliance don't stop fighting for Ramadan? Iran and Iraq never stopped for it during their war.

[Jim W]

The Arab nations haven't stopped their own wars during Ramadan. Why the he<b></b>ll should we?

[Ralph Baer]

Originally posted by The Sicatoka
About Ramadan:

So, if the US stops during that period we are assured that no terrorist acts will occur during any other religion's festivals? Right?

None during:
Hanukkah?
Christmas?
Lent?
Easter?
Yom Kippur?
Rosh Hashanah?
[insert other holy days celebrated by Americans here]?

There was no Arab attack on Israel on Yom Kippur in 1973, was there?

[Jim W]

Would you stop reading my mind Bobo? Lately, every time I post something you post almost the same thing right before me. :)

[RoyalTea]

even though we've been trying to present this as a battle between civlization and terrorists, i don't think that the muslim world believes us. As much as we try to avoid it, i truly see this developing into a battle between western democracy vs islam.


a side note: if sexual activity is prohibited during ramadan, how many children are born 9 months after ramadan?

[Royal Oil]

Originally posted by RoyalTea
even though we've been trying to present this as a battle between civlization and terrorists, i don't think that the muslim world believes us. As much as we try to avoid it, i truly see this developing into a battle between western democracy vs islam.



Royal Tea,

I agree totally. Arab media is going to make this look like a total attack on Islam. Western society and media have an uphill battle to show we are not fighting their religeon, but only terrorism. I'm sure Osama Bin Laden & co. never talks about America being the largest supplier of foreign aid to Afghanistan, and the thousands of Muslim-Americans that worship and live freely w/0 persecution in America.

[gophergutz]

As it states on the posts, I'm from Rochester. One of Osama's buddies is in the Fed Medical Prison here for being part of the 1993 attempt on the WTC. A letter with the "famous white powdery substance" was opened up at the Fed Med Prison the other day here. They are analyzing in now to see if it is indeed anthrax. The terrorism is really hitting close to home now. I just hope heads role in Afghanistan over this terrorist effort.

[Todd Patten]

RoyalOil -- I think your reference to Muslim-Americans is a very good, and often referenced point. The thing is though, those in the Arab world see many of the muslims who live in the US as either a) infidels or b) potential fighters for the so called jihad that many in the Islamic world have proposed.

In addition, the US government is trying to do all they can not to isolate and endanger the Muslim-Americans that are living freely in our country who actually believe in the American philosophy of freedom.

I have also read comments from SOME, and I emphesize the word SOME, Muslim-Americans that they are muslim first, American second. They hear the calls from the Arab world and for some reason it rings true in their ears, even though they are enjoying the freedoms that this country affords them.

Once again, religion has a profound effect on people, particularly in masses. Regardless of the sect, people are easily brainwashed into perseptions that may or may not be true. It seems that the Arab Islamic world in particular feels that we have it out for them.

They attack our support for Israel, but let's face it, if it were not for the US restraining Israel, the Jews would have pounded the Palestinians into the earth. Either way, we would be blamed. I say that at this point, lets take the gloves off Israel and let them handle situations how they choose. I admire them for the vicious manner in which they defend their democracy and freedom. We could take a lesson or two from them.

[alnorman]

Originally posted by Ralph Baer


There was no Arab attack on Israel on Yom Kippur in 1973, was there?

Ralph,

In the Muslim War the Yom Kippur War is referred to as the Ramadan War. Do you have any idea why???

[Ralph Baer]

alnorman, Maybe it was during Ramadan. I don't know.

[Todd Patten]

From MSNBC

• Pakistani authorities have interrogated two leading nuclear scientists about possible contacts with the leader of Afghanistan's Taliban militia, government officials said. The revelation comes as reports emerge from The Times newspaper of Britain indicating that Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network have acquired nuclear materials for possible use against the West.

These crazy ******** would use it to. No more screwing around...

[alnorman]

Originally posted by Ralph Baer
alnorman, Maybe it was during Ramadan. I don't know.

I'm assuming a huge amount of sarcasm there, as it was obviously during Ramadan. Which makes you wonder why it's wrong for a Muslim nation to be attacked during the month, but it's OK for multiple Muslim countries to attack.

[RoyalTea]

Originally posted by cambam
These crazy ******** would use it to. No more screwing around...

but use it against whom?

if they bombed themselves, they could blame the united states.

[Royal Oil]

Originally posted by cambam



I have also read comments from SOME, and I emphesize the word SOME, Muslim-Americans that they are muslim first, American second.
They attack our support for Israel, but let's face it, if it were not for the US restraining Israel, the Jews would have pounded the Palestinians into the earth

Good points cambam,

I can understand that some Muslims say they are Muslims first, American's second. They can put their God before country as many other Christians, American Indians often do. But by being American's second, that still means they should be loyal to this coutnry and support its efforts to defend American citizens, whether they be Christians, Jews, or Muslims. If not being tolerants of Jews, Christians, and other religions in this country does not fall under "being American's second", then they should get a flight back to their ancestors homeland.

I totally agree with you on the Isreal issue. We sort of have a choke collar on Israel. If we didn't yank it back once in a while the concept of a Palestinian would be no more. I feel for Israel and their terrorist attacks that happen daily on their markets and other public places. We here in the US still don't have a grasp of what they deal with every day.

[The Sicatoka]

Same fate as the last opposition to the Taliban leader.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/26/gen.attack.on.terror/index.html

[Handyman]

As someone with ties to Israel let me chime in...

The gloves should NOT come off!! I agree america should allow Israel to deal with the Palestinian terrorists (not all Palestinians are terrorists) but if America doesnt watch Israel, especially under Sharon, it could be real bad. Sharon detests Palestinians as much as Arafat detests Israel. If the gloves come off, the Palestinans will cease to exist at all...and I never am for innocent dying unless it is a last resort. No matter what, the Palestinians cannot win!! They have no support. People compare the situation to the colonies vs. Britain, but america would not have defeated the English without some help from the French. NO ONE will support Palestine, for fear that if they do America will fight them (and we will!!). Plus as long as the PLO is headed by Arafat, no one trusts them and will be associated with them fully because Arafat is a friggin murdering criminal!! (so is Sharon...oh joy!!). America should watch over, but not interfere unless Israel is crossing the line (IE killing innocents for no good reason!!)

As for Afghanistan...the time is now. We have held off long enough!! We gave the Taliban time, we gave the innocentenough warning, time to destroy that strip of sand and make a parking lot!! If indeed they are trying to go Nuclear, we must not hesitate any longer!! Tighten the reigns on the surrounding countries if need, close all the borders (not say it..DO IT!!) he time for peace is gone...the effort by Al Qaeda and the Taliban to get Nuclear Weapons shows they wish to destroyus, and now is a time for KILL OR BE KILLED!!!

I am sorry if you disagree, but it is OCT 26th...well over a month and the evidence is OVERWHELMING!! I understand why some protest military action...I respect your opinion but YOU ARE WRONG!! The sudden outbreak of antharax is not a coincidence!! This is the second wave Ashcroft warned us of!! We cant let this happen...THEY MUST BE STOPPED!! If you think peaceful measures could work, you fly to Afghanistan and talk to the Taliban. Tell them to return the hostages. Tell them to stop Bin Laden from sending diseases as weapons. Tell them to stop trying to go Nuclear. See how long you last!!

Survival means sometimes having to do whatis morally wrong...NOW IS THAT TIME!!

[Bobo]

Doesn't not fighting during Ramadan actually imply that this IS a war against Islam? I thought we were fighting terrorists. So, is Ramadan a terrorist holy period?

Seems to me that by not fighting during Ramadan we are clearly implying that yes, we are at war against Islam and/or all terrorists are Islamic. Isn't that sort of just the message we're trying not to send?

If this has nothing to do with Islam, as we continually say, why are we considering stopping during Ramadan?

Mixed messages anyone?