What The Holy Hell Is Going On?

[MikeM]

Originally posted by verybdog
It is the America's foreign policies that are the ones to be blamed.

Only in that yes, the terrorists were unhappy with some of our policies and chose to commit their acts because of it. However that is what terrorists do. They do not do these things because they like our policies. So that goes without saying.

I hope you do not mean to say that in some way this means what they did was "deserved". Yes there are reasons why they did what they did. No it was not deserved.

The only blame is to be placed on the heads of the terrorists. Anyone who would claim otherwise is in the same league as they are.

[Ritt18]

Thank you for everyone's kind thoughts, prayers and wishes. Although this is the first time I have had the opportunity to see them all, I did speak to Jenna a few days ago and she conveyed all of your thoughts and prayers. I don't think I will ever be able to flame some of you ever again.

As for the situation around me, I can only say that this is the worst thing I have ever seen and could have ever imagined, and yet, from the depths of despair, I have had my faith in my God, humanity and my country restored.

I have seen and on some level participated in a low intensity conflict up close and personal, and have witnessed the degredation and horror that attach themselves to such an event. As initial events unfolded, I thought that I would be better prepared than most to deal with what was happening here. I was, as anyone who read my last post, scared beyond belief, but I was confident that I could keep it together on my own without any problem. I have never been more wrong about anything in my life.

After evacuating my apartment and making my way through the ranks of National Guard troops who positioned themselves outside, I made my way to a volunteer command center located at the Javitz Convention Center. In the initial moments after the collapse, they were looking to send anyone with first aid or rescue training into the disaster sector to help augment the depleteded ranks of rescuers on the ground. As I made my way into the zone with about 50 other volunteers, I saw images which will be seared into my memory for the rest of my life. I cannot describe the carnage that I saw in those first, dust choked hours, but one will haunt me for the rest of my life. As we made our way up to the new fire fighter command center, which was up and running within minutes after the first center and all of the upper chain of command that was operating out of it was lost in the collapse, we came upon a young firefighter, standing by himself crying. He was with the elite Rescue 1 Company, and was the sole survivor of the entry team because he had been left outside of the Tower to help escort some victims who had already cleared the building from the area. Whereas I thought that he might be crying in mourning for the loss of his friends, I discovered from talking to him that above all else he was crying tears of shame at not being in the building, doing what he was trained to do, at the time of the collapse. He would have gladly forfeited his own life to rescue anyone of the countless thousands lost. It was at that moment that I truly came to understand the selfless devotion that is part and parcel of the fire fighter and rescuers make up.

Later, when we left the zone and retired to a staging area north of the zone, I was overwhelmed by the support that ordinary people gave us as enetered the facility to shower. Strangers came up to us and offered us food and water. I know I was not alone amongst the volunteers in feeling completely undeserving of this attention. In truth, we accomplished very little. However, the appreciation that was shown for our inept and meager efforts greatly boosted my sagging spirits.

That night, I slept in the armory with a lot of other volunteers, who like me, either could not return to or did not want to return to our appartments. Sometime in the middle of the night, a lone voice began singing The Star Spangled Banner, he was soon joined by the voices of a couple hundred others inside the armory and outside on the street. At that moment, I realized that these terrorists, who sought to leave us crippled with fear and doubt, had failed. We are a great nation, the greatest nation the Earth has ever seen. We have our problems, but we are a basically good and decent people. Our government, for all of its inherent weaknesses and problems is the greatest and most just government that mankind has ever devised because at the end of the day, we the people are that government. When we fight for our country, we our fighting not for a king, a tyrant or a sole party or a single God, but rather, we are fighting for all of us. I firmly belive that as a result of this fact we are invincible because we simply refuse to fail ourselves and the people we love.

Make no mistake about this, if the rest of the country has the spirit that I saw exhibited in the streets of lower Manhattan, we will hunt down every single living person, entity or government that was responsible for this act of unspeakable cowardice and will anihilate them from the face of the Earth. To do less, would be to dishonor those who lost their lives. We cannot allow this to occur.

On a personal note, I have lost about seven or eight friends as a result of this attack. Please pray for them and for all the victims.

God bless you all and God bless The United States of America.

[pquine]

Ritt -

From all of us. "Thank you"

[BUNU9801]

Ritt,

My prayers are with you and all those who have lost loved ones. I will make sure to light candles and pray for you and your friends tonight and always.

God Bless America
God Bless Americans
And GOD Bless The Innocent People of the World.
:(

[Bobo]

Originally posted by Husky Fan Roy


No one is comparing the USS Cole to what happened on Tuesday. The USS Cole turns out to be a huge warning that went ignored. Lets hope that these "warnings" will be heeded in the future.

The Millenium celebrations is an excellent point to bring up. It was an excellent job. You know why? Because it was taken seriously and action was taken. When action is not taken things escalate and tragedies like Tuesday happen.


Who ignored the Cole? You have absolutley no idea how we responded to the Cole. And do you really think that was our first inkling that terrorism exists? "Oh, that was a warning, who knew bad men existed that don't like the US. My god." You might be 14 years old but the US gov't isn't. We've had decades to "do something". We have done something. The threats and it's mehtods change constantly. We didn't do enough or we didn't do the right thing.

And to say the Millenium was a success becasue we took it seriously but WTC was a failure because we didn't shows how little you know. We have an intellignece and security apparatus, it succeeds and it fails but it's the same apparatus, we don't create new policies and practices on a one-off basis.

Are ALL public water supplies in the US secure today? Do all nuclear power plants have Apache helicopters hovering over them? Does the Iron Mtn. data center have a division of soldiers surrounding it? Do we have Geiger counters at all subway turnstiles, those trains go under major buildings in every city, one nuclear warhead...

Come on, make the world perfectly safe for me, think of every thing, be foolproof, of course we'll pay for it all, haven't we always said we love taxes. And sacrificing our time and mobility?

[Husky Fan Roy]

Let me just say this, our borders are open so anyone can get in that we know absolutely nothing about, don't ya think its time to maybe think about changing our ways on our own soil?

[Scott Murphy]

Ritt, welcome back. Take care of yourself.

[Bobo]

How?

Don't just say it, tell us how. Our border with Canada is over 3,000 miles long. Forests, rivers, lakes, mountains...

How?

[Bobo]

Ritt,

GREAT to see you're well. Keep your head up, and let us know what we can do, for you or anyone down there. ANYTHING...just say the word.

[Husky Fan Roy]

Originally posted by Bobo
How?

Don't just say it, tell us how. Our border with Canada is over 3,000 miles long. Forests, rivers, lakes, mountains...

How?

How bout for starters when you cross the border they do more than just ask you what your business is, how long you will be staying and are you carrying anything you shouldn't be.

You go to some other countries and you **** near get strip searched.

All I can say that it is pretty sad that yesterday 3 employees of NW purposely took some sort of weapons thru the security at the airport and were allowed thru. That is definitally an area that needs to be improved. Hand search every bag, pat people down, make them empty all pockets, hell if it takes 3 hours just to check in, FINE, better be safe than sorry.

[MikeM]

Jim,

One of the most wonderful posts I have read on any board let alone this one. Thank you for your efforts and my thoughts and prayers are with the friends you lost. I'm glad you are well and thank you for sharing this with us.

[Todd Patten]

Ritt -- good to hear from you. I'm confident that you will be able to continue to flame away without a problem :)

By the way -- while I do not envy what you have gone through over the past few days -- I wish that I could be there along side you, helping in any way I could. I, as do many people, feel like I can't do enough from here.

[Todd Patten]

Originally posted by Husky Fan Roy
Let me just say this, our borders are open so anyone can get in that we know absolutely nothing about, don't ya think its time to maybe think about changing our ways on our own soil?

I will not <b>EVER</b> give up my liberty in the name of safety. I will not give up the foundation this country is made on to prevent a possible attack. When we do that -- they've won.

<i>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little tempory safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1759)</i>

[fritz]

<B>Ritt</B>-

Hang in there. Our country will survive this terrible chapter.
Words cannot express the sympathy every American feels for those lives lost and their relatives and friends. The low-lifes who did this evil deed and their backers will be hunted down. Make NO mistake about that.

I know what you mean about not being able to flame any more.
I wake up every morning and have that sick feeling...wishing this never had happened. Will we ever be able to smile again? I hope so, but for now the hurt is too great.

Your friend in Wisconsin.

fritz

[Handyman]

Roy and Bobo,

Ok guys you made your points, lets seriously stop all this ok. Man I amsick of watching what was once a united group deteriorate into fighting again. We are all tense and scared and angry and nervous...lets just be thankful we are here and not try and hate each other all over again. Nothing could have stopped this, no one knew or could have known it would happen. Past actions are not indications, I merely was saying that in that case (the Cole) it seems we should have done more...I was not comparing it and not trying to say anything bad about Clinton. Now is a time for us all to heal and pray (if you do pray that is) and help those in need. Let the fighting commence in a month or more when we have MAYBE moved on.

Ritt,

I have only conversed with you a couple times (and I seem to never remember them being pleasant) but I am still relieved to know you are ok. You account has chilled me to the bone. I cannot imagine being where you were ans seeing what you saw. I am almost cracking up and I live in Minnesota fro chrissakes (pardon my usage). I not only am scared but feel helpless here in that I want to be where I am needed...if I could, I would go to NY right now and do ANYTHING to try and help out, but alas I cannot. I am glad to see you back though as I tend to think of all of us on this board as family (which means those we dislike are those relatives that we all hate at family functions ya know) and while you may be that third cousin I never met or only know from secondhand experience, you are still part of my family and so it affects me (if that makes any friggin sense).

Hopefully in the future we can talk in depth about other issues, without flame wars and name calling and prejudice (I mean this whole community). I have more respect for you and all the rest of this board than I ever thought possible. I may be agnostic, and may not be religious, but whatever guides us through life (God, Fate, luck) may it be with all of you, and anyone else who has lost someone. May the country come out of this stronger than ever, and may the wicked be punished for their robbing us all of our innocense.

[Husky Fan Roy]

Originally posted by cambam


I will not <b>EVER</b> give up my liberty in the name of safety. I will not give up the foundation this country is made on to prevent a possible attack. When we do that -- they've won.

<i>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little tempory safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1759)</i>

Then we will always be at a high risk for what happened on Tuesday.

[Bobo]

Roy,

Great idea. Now if we can't just get all criminals and terrorists to sign an agreement that they'll only cross at the manned check points, we're set. That should be the easy part.

(A guy like you, with your brains, really ought to be in charge of something. US counter-terrorism, the FBI, a DPW shovel, the men's room at Denny's...am I getting warm.)

I could walk from NH into Canada, and back, and no one would ever know. I've done it. There are miles of woods where the two countries just fade into one another without a road in sight let alone a custom's official. And that's one small state.

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by Husky Fan Roy
All I can say that it is pretty sad that yesterday 3 employees of NW purposely took some sort of weapons thru the security at the airport and were allowed thru. That is definitally an area that needs to be improved. Hand search every bag, pat people down, make them empty all pockets, hell if it takes 3 hours just to check in, FINE, better be safe than sorry. I fly relatively frequently (between once a month and once every two months), and I am not willing to trade security <em>that</em> invasive for the resulting increase in security. I think somebody's already posted the Ben Franklin quote about liberty and security in this thread, but IMO it bears mentioning again. Between the invasiveness, the necessary delays, the merely incremental improvement in security, I don't consider such an approach acceptable.

That said, certainly the actions of the Northwest employees are disconcerting, and I would hope that we improve the scanners and metal detectors to the point where that will not happen again. I'm certainly in favor of taking reasonable steps to tighten security -- I just don't agree with you on the definition of "reasonable."

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by Husky Fan Roy
Then we will always be at a high risk for what happened on Tuesday. No, we will always be at some risk of losing a plane full of passengers to sufficiently determined hijackers. I would hope that the lessons of Tuesday will be enough to keep any group from successfully pulling off such an attack again, but there's always the risk that another attempt will cost one or more planeloads of passengers. One solution is to treat hostages as dead already, in which case the hijackers lose their power over the situation -- their power is derived from the value placed on the hostages and the intent to keep them alive.

[dmeans]

I too am glad to see you're ok. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for your efforts. Words cannot express the gratitude we owe you, and countless others for everything that has been done. Chills ran up and down my body while reading your story. I will be lighting many candles tonight for the friends and family you, and thousands of others, have lost.

God Bless America!